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Super Sunday yellow cards

santa sangria

santa sangria

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Quite astounding contrast in styles - others might call it shocking inconsistency - from Coote in Liv-Bton vs Taylor in City-Ars.

Coote gave 8 (eight) yellow cards, five of which seemed optional/unnecessary. There were also several moments in the match where he seemed to be taking strong queues from others. The first yellow card (Mac Allister) was invented it seemed on advice in his ear. The timing was such, it took so long for him to whistle and then card, it seemed like it was decided in Stockley park. Coote then seemed to have trouble with foul recognition and basically carded anything that moved. As the commentors and both sets of fans said, it made him look weak and out of his depth.

Taylor, perhaps having watched the nonsense earlier, showed two yellow cards, both to Arsenal for time wasting related. Silva and Odegaard committed obviously reckless challenges and no cards were shown. I know they are not that kind if player but watch Silva’s ridiculo-hack sliding from behind. OMG.

(Taylor appeared very strong, calmest in the room etc.)

In the end, both matches were very easy by premier league standards. Yet both referee performances would be 8,1 or worse IMHO.

And surely the players, teams, fans deserve more consistency.
 
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I thought Taylor took game management well beyond what is acceptable and he impacted the game as a result.

He missed (chose to ignore) multiple yellow cards, the silva one in particular was appalling.

Game management has a place, but you have to do your job otherwise you're short changing the teams, players, fans from a different and more appropriate outcome.
 
santa sangria said:
Quite astounding contrast in styles - others might call it shocking inconsistency - from Coote in Liv-Bton vs Taylor in City-Ars.

Coote gave 8 (eight) yellow cards, five of which seemed optional/unnecessary. There were also several moments in the match where he seemed to be taking strong queues from others. The first yellow card (Mac Allister) was invented it seemed on advice in his ear. The timing was such, it took so long for him to whistle and then card, it seemed like it was decided in Stockley park. Coote then seemed to have trouble with foul recognition and basically carded anything that moved. As the commentors and both sets of fans said, it made him look weak and out of his depth.

Taylor, perhaps having watched the nonsense earlier, showed two yellow cards, both to Arsenal for time wasting related. Silva and Odegaard committed obviously reckless challenges and no cards were shown. I know they are not that kind if player but watch Silva’s ridiculo-hack sliding from behind. OMG.

(Taylor appeared very strong, calmest in the room etc.)

In the end, both matches were very easy by premier league standards. Yet both referee performances would be 8,1 or worse IMHO.

And surely the players, teams, fans deserve more consistency.
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I'm glad I wasn't the only one noticing it. One thing worth a motion was the foul count being 20 to 6 for Coote. Of course you have to call them as they come but this game didn't look like one sided in terms of fouls. It goes to your mention of trouble with foul recognition, or rather moving the bar randomly instead of with the temperature of the game.

With Taylor it felt like he was saving it for when the game gets heated, but it never did or was expected to (disclaimer: I only saw the first half).
 
There was me thinking I was alone. Watched the first half of City Vs Arsenal and immediately thought had Taylor been refereeing Burney Vs Brentford in a Saturday 3pm game, he would have had no hesitation in pulling out cards for identical challenges/incidents he chose not to card in the Man City Vs Arsenal. For me this was one of those occasions where "managing the occasion" went to far as players and fans were clearly getting wound up by the lack of disciplinary action from Taylor.
 
It's not the first time i've thought David Coote has looked out of his depth. Luis Diaz committed 5 first half fouls and avoided a caution, surely that is the simplest caution he can give out all year? If that one wasn't, Joe Gomez committing 3 cynical fouls in the space of 10 minutes, before wiping out a Brighton player to finally get cautioned, but then as @santa sangria mentioned, he bizzarely booked Mac Allister for a nothing challenge.

As for Anthony Taylor, each game I watch him officiate, the more I think he seems to think he's the new Mike Dean, very animated in decisions and seemingly wants to be the centre of attention.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
As for Anthony Taylor, each game I watch him officiate, the more I think he seems to think he's the new Mike Dean, very animated in decisions and seemingly wants to be the centre of attention.
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I don't really agree with this, just think he's becoming more himself when refereeing, and less the persona that is required.

If you think back to last seasons Europa final, I think he was spectacular, and not at all 'animated' etc.
 
The Ginger Ref said:
It's not the first time i've thought David Coote has looked out of his depth. Luis Diaz committed 5 first half fouls and avoided a caution, surely that is the simplest caution he can give out all year? If that one wasn't, Joe Gomez committing 3 cynical fouls in the space of 10 minutes, before wiping out a Brighton player to finally get cautioned, but then as @santa sangria mentioned, he bizzarely booked Mac Allister for a nothing challenge.

As for Anthony Taylor, each game I watch him officiate, the more I think he seems to think he's the new Mike Dean, very animated in decisions and seemingly wants to be the centre of attention.
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Whether the challenge by Mac Allister was a foul or not was open to debate. What probably just about swings it towards foul for me is he looks away from the ball at Adingra and then immediately puts his arm against him.

But regardless of whether a foul was merited, once given it has to be a caution. Adingra was running clear down the left wing, so if a foul is given it can only be SPA, there really is no option not to caution..
 
The Ginger Ref said:
It's not the first time i've thought David Coote has looked out of his depth. Luis Diaz committed 5 first half fouls and avoided a caution, surely that is the simplest caution he can give out all year? If that one wasn't, Joe Gomez committing 3 cynical fouls in the space of 10 minutes, before wiping out a Brighton player to finally get cautioned, but then as @santa sangria mentioned, he bizzarely booked Mac Allister for a nothing challenge.
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I picked up on Coote seemingly deciding that Diaz wasn't allowed to legally tackle - the thing with the Diaz fouls is how many of them were actually fouls? Yes, 5 "logged" fouls with no card is pretty poor in one sense, but the reality is that I think 2 or 3 of them were so soft that you would expect most PL referees to play on. So it's a double-mistake: failure of foul recognition, followed by failure to recognise PI. You can only assume he knew he was giving incredibly soft fouls and didn't want to highlight that fact with a caution!

As for City-Ars, the thing that stood out to me about Odegaard wasn't the tackles as such, it's that he's constantly having screaming temper tantrums with the ref. Complete with visible arm movements, which we were reliably informed earlier in the season were mandatory yellow cards. I only watched the last 20 minutes and when I saw him giving AT earfuls with no booking, I assumed he was already carded and AT didn't want to second-yellow for dissent in such a big game - weak, but understandable. When I checked my app and found out he wasn't on a card, I was even more unimpressed.
 
The only positive thing that I can say is that at least AT was consistent in his approach. Having said that, it was absolutely the wrong approach and I think it went beyond what is an acceptable level of game management.

Not sure who it was, but a City attacker got wrong side of Jesus in about the 3rd/4th minite and he just dragged the attacker back. About as clear an example of SPA as you'd ever hope to see, and it was inexplicable that he wasn't cautioned. Same goes for challenges from Odegaard and Bernardo too, they just had to be cautioned.
 
It's funny ain't it because people complain if there is a game with too many cards then the ref has lost control and yet a game with just 2 yellows also get criticized.

I think the fact in both games there was no major controversies suggests whilst it may of been refereed differently then there is nothing too much wrong with either approach. At the end of the day, you will never get consistency as each referee is different and every game is different, I think fans and pundits should understand there will never be perfection in football.
 
Paul_10 said:
It's funny ain't it because people complain if there is a game with too many cards then the ref has lost control and yet a game with just 2 yellows also get criticized.

I think the fact in both games there was no major controversies suggests whilst it may of been refereed differently then there is nothing too much wrong with either approach. At the end of the day, you will never get consistency as each referee is different and every game is different, I think fans and pundits should understand there will never be perfection in football.
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I think you're conflating "pundit" speak with "referee" speak.

I've never been a fan of the "he lost control" turn of phrase - if the game requires 15 cards, a good referee gives 15 cards. If the referee shows he is willing to correctly penalise cautionable offences and the players continue to commit cautionable offences, a referee who is still in control will continue to give appropriate cards, including second yellows where necessary. There's only so much he can do if the players don't register the warnings, he has no direct ability to limit their behaviour other than showing there will be clear and consistent consequences for offences.

In these situations, the lack of any major controversy feels like much more luck than judgement. If MacAllister commits a clear cautionable offence and is sent off having been booked for a nothing foul early, that's controversy. Or even if the ref then bottles the second yellow because he feels the first was harsh. And ditto the other way in City-Ars: Silva and Odegaard not getting booked is much less controversial given they ended the game unbooked - if they had seen yellow towards the end of the game, questions may well have been asked about why the first yellow was missed.
 
As it gets to the business nend of the season we are seeing teams getting stretched and untidy in possession meaning passes are going astray and fouls are being made more frequently. I think it showed in both games that perhaps both referees are playing too much as they can't seem to make simple choices in the heat of the game. I'm surprised there are so few referees who are able to referee these games. It's always the same people who seem to do them? Surely there is more choice out there?
 
I thought that AT really needed to deal with the persistence of fouls. 29 fouls (based on stats) and it was just getting silly the number of them towards the end.

If I were being observed and I hadn’t given a couple of C3s I’d be getting penalised.

Just my opinion - thought there was an early SPA missed and a few others.
 
RustyRef said:
Whether the challenge by Mac Allister was a foul or not was open to debate. What probably just about swings it towards foul for me is he looks away from the ball at Adingra and then immediately puts his arm against him.
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Yeah I thought the same. A fairly innocuous "block" but Macallister only had eyes on his opponent right from the moment he sped off down the wing which suggested (to me anyway) that he was only concerned with halting the run rather than challenging for the ball.
 
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