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A new beginning

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BSLNK21

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A new beginning



I’m posting to gain a bit more understanding from the referring community with regards to progression within the game in England.



A bit of a background on myself:

I was fortunate enough to play at a good level (academy and a single year pro) in the early 2010’s before dropping down into non league, then just playing locally until a couple of years ago, so I’ve been on the other side of the fence so to speak.



I’m completing a refereeing course with the Shropshire FA soon, however I was wondering what serious progression routes are there? I’m 31 so I’m assuming if I hit the ground running, enjoying refereeing and learning, remaining humble and hungry, then is there a serious chance to become full time?

Or is 31 too old to start the long road back into the professional game?


Nice to meet you all and look forward to your invaluable advice!
 
The Referee Store
BSLNK21 said:
A new beginning



I’m posting to gain a bit more understanding from the referring community with regards to progression within the game in England.



A bit of a background on myself:

I was fortunate enough to play at a good level (academy and a single year pro) in the early 2010’s before dropping down into non league, then just playing locally until a couple of years ago, so I’ve been on the other side of the fence so to speak.



I’m completing a refereeing course with the Shropshire FA soon, however I was wondering what serious progression routes are there? I’m 31 so I’m assuming if I hit the ground running, enjoying refereeing and learning, remaining humble and hungry, then is there a serious chance to become full time?

Or is 31 too old to start the long road back into the professional game?


Nice to meet you all and look forward to your invaluable advice!
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It's not too old but equally the chances of becoming a full time official are quite small. Speak to your RDO & put yourself forward for promotion as soon as they allow and go from there. Level 7-5 refereeing is amateur. Level 4 is where it becomes a bit more serious and you are in effect doing semi pro football at steps 5&6 (middles), and step 4 lines. That's where promotions become much harder and with alot of competition.

Good luck
 
Once you've passed you'll be level 7. Professional referees are level 1.

7->6->5 can now be done in 6 months if you do a lot of games and have a co-operative RDO that gets you the observations you need (2 for each step). 5->4 takes a year, either a season or a calendar year. Each of the other steps takes a year minimum, and it's not simply achieving a certain mark, it's scoring higher than others at your level and the demand for referees at the higher level.

I know nothing about how progression works above level 3 (I'm a level 5 but I know a few level 3s).
 
It's not impossible, but it is improbable, especially starting at an older age.

I'm 32 now (nearly 33) and I began at 26. I've been quite fortunate to get to where I am currently in the time I have, especially given the interruptions caused by COVID. Not starting earlier is one of my biggest regrets.

I would say, as said above, go for promotion as soon as you can, and just keep pushing. Never say never.
 
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BSLNK21 said:
A new beginning



I’m posting to gain a bit more understanding from the referring community with regards to progression within the game in England.



A bit of a background on myself:

I was fortunate enough to play at a good level (academy and a single year pro) in the early 2010’s before dropping down into non league, then just playing locally until a couple of years ago, so I’ve been on the other side of the fence so to speak.



I’m completing a refereeing course with the Shropshire FA soon, however I was wondering what serious progression routes are there? I’m 31 so I’m assuming if I hit the ground running, enjoying refereeing and learning, remaining humble and hungry, then is there a serious chance to become full time?

Or is 31 too old to start the long road back into the professional game?


Nice to meet you all and look forward to your invaluable advice!
Click to expand...
I think you are getting a historic version of the progression pathway.
If you'd have written this 1 or 2 years ago I'd have nothing to add.
Now though, with programs like the ERDP (elite referee development program), it is entirely possible if you are talented enough, committed enough, and driven enough to make it to the professional game. But you do need to be all of these things and add a sprinkle of lady luck too. It wont be given on a plate, it's hard work but it's also great to have that ambition before you start so best of luck to you.

Like @RefereeX I started @ mid 20s. I've made some mistakes in terms of progression (1 year @ junior football and a failed attempt at 5-4 purely on availability.) and then the impact of COVID, it's been a long old road to get to level 3. Otherwise our timelines would be quite similar I guess.
And each level it naturally gets more difficult to standout.

In theory the new progression pathway could see you at football league in 5 years. In practise that would be some feat BUT if you get on one of the programs the chances are a lot higher. There have been a lot of referees given games at higher than their level this season and I believe that's a sign of things to come for those within the FA & PGMOL talent groups.
 
JamesL said:
I think you are getting a historic version of the progression pathway.
If you'd have written this 1 or 2 years ago I'd have nothing to add.
Now though, with programs like the ERDP (elite referee development program), it is entirely possible if you are talented enough, committed enough, and driven enough to make it to the professional game. But you do need to be all of these things and add a sprinkle of lady luck too. It wont be given on a plate, it's hard work but it's also great to have that ambition before you start so best of luck to you.

Like @RefereeX I started @ mid 20s. I've made some mistakes in terms of progression (1 year @ junior football and a failed attempt at 5-4 purely on availability.) and then the impact of COVID, it's been a long old road to get to level 3. Otherwise our timelines would be quite similar I guess.
And each level it naturally gets more difficult to standout.

In theory the new progression pathway could see you at football league in 5 years. In practise that would be some feat BUT if you get on one of the programs the chances are a lot higher. There have been a lot of referees given games at higher than their level this season and I believe that's a sign of things to come for those within the FA & PGMOL talent groups.
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This is really interesting, thank you for such a detailed response.

In your opinion what are the biggest obstacles preventing progress to higher levels and at what level do they present themselves more frequently?

After browsing this fantastic forum, the things I’m picking up on are:

1. Availability
2. Travelling
3. Unreliable RDO’s
4. Saturated level 5

Is there any accuracy in this?

Cheers
 
BSLNK21 said:
This is really interesting, thank you for such a detailed response.

In your opinion what are the biggest obstacles preventing progress to higher levels and at what level do they present themselves more frequently?

After browsing this fantastic forum, the things I’m picking up on are:

1. Availability
2. Travelling
3. Unreliable RDO’s
4. Saturated level 5

Is there any accuracy in this?

Cheers
Click to expand...
1 availability is a must. To get to level 4 you need to do 20 middles and 15 Lines in a season.

2. You have to be prepared to travel

3. Not really a barrier. All CFAs will run progression pathways. Be proactive. It's not the RDOs job to do your admin. Often people mistake their poor admin as the rdo's fault. (Remember it's not on a plate you have to go get it).

4. Not really... If you are good enough you get picked ahead of others.

The 1 thing you are missing is your admin needs to be tip top. You dont want to be showing as available and then when appointed saying oh I can't do that game. Coming off games is not looked upon favourably, it happens for emergencies sure but try not to have too many emergencies.

The last barrier is yourself. I hear a lot of referees who blame external factors (observers, appointments, ARs, clubs, games that are observed) for not progressing. You just have to focus on yourself and what you can do. Those external factors are the same for everyone.
 
JamesL said:
Those external factors are the same for everyone
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This is key. I may not have any personal experience but by being friends with 2 former football league officials (looking at 80s/90s sort of era) I can say you have to make sure you stand out as head and shoulders above the rest. Do not do the bare minimum.
 
BSLNK21 said:
This is really interesting, thank you for such a detailed response.

In your opinion what are the biggest obstacles preventing progress to higher levels and at what level do they present themselves more frequently?

After browsing this fantastic forum, the things I’m picking up on are:

1. Availability
2. Travelling
3. Unreliable RDO’s
4. Saturated level 5

Is there any accuracy in this?

Cheers
Click to expand...
The biggest obstacle is the funnel effect. A lot of referees get stuck at level 4 for a long time, there are few places available at L3 and you are competing against a lot of L4s. Same when you get to L3, there are hundreds of referees competing for a small number of places at L2b. You need to stand out above the crowd, and most referees that have progressed will tell you that they had a bit of luck along the way. I certainly did, in the season I finally got promoted from 4 to 3 I had 6 assessments and all of them were very competitive games with loads happening, that season I had almost as many red cards as games at step 5. Just one of those games being a 10-0 with nothing happening might well have stopped me going up.

But James is also spot on that there are lots of things that you can influence, like availability, administration and attitude. I've seen lots of referees with much more natural ability than me not progress over the years, and that is because they let themselves down in those areas. Think of it like a very talented footballer who turns up late, has a bad attitude, etc, there are loads of players who were the "next best thing" who never made it.
 
RustyRef said:
The biggest obstacle is the funnel effect. A lot of referees get stuck at level 4 for a long time, there are few places available at L3 and you are competing against a lot of L4s. Same when you get to L3, there are hundreds of referees competing for a small number of places at L2b. You need to stand out above the crowd, and most referees that have progressed will tell you that they had a bit of luck along the way. I certainly did, in the season I finally got promoted from 4 to 3 I had 6 assessments and all of them were very competitive games with loads happening, that season I had almost as many red cards as games at step 5. Just one of those games being a 10-0 with nothing happening might well have stopped me going up.

But James is also spot on that there are lots of things that you can influence, like availability, administration and attitude. I've seen lots of referees with much more natural ability than me not progress over the years, and that is because they let themselves down in those areas. Think of it like a very talented footballer who turns up late, has a bad attitude, etc, there are loads of players who were the "next best thing" who never made it.
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Yeah this makes complete sense, and something that is applicable in all aspects of life, not just refereeing.

This is all fantastic information so thank you.
 
If it helps ..

I qualified when I was young but I stopped and have recently just taken up refereeing again. I’m now 32 years old.

I have done two seasons now and went for promotion from 7-5 in this time.

I said to myself that I wouldn’t rush it but I wanted to push myself so I was challenged and see where it took me.

I didn’t want to rush promotion and get ahead of myself and I have recently had a child (nearly 2 now) so I did the progression from 7-5 in 1 and a 3/4 seasons. (I got my level 5 two weeks ago). This was only being available 3/4 Saturdays a month and a handful of Sundays across the season.

I found the promotion process brilliant and really helpful. You get assigned a coach and I learnt a huge amount for that. I started to get on some really good games with good referees at a high level which I learnt a huge amount from.

I have really enjoyed it, I am now considering going for Level 4 but.. I am very conscious that I do not feel that I can commit to the process of that. Unfortunately, I am now stuck a little bit at 5 because there are rumours that level 4s will be used next year for the senior prem county games that I am being appointed to now. So I feel like, next year, I may be refereeing at a lower level than I am now just because of this.

In summary, keep your feet on the ground but certainly a really good and beneficial process to go through, in my opinion.
 
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Redref34 said:
If it helps ..

I qualified when I was young but I stopped and have recently just taken up refereeing again. I’m now 32 years old.

I have done two seasons now and went for promotion from 7-5 in this time.

I said to myself that I wouldn’t rush it but I wanted to push myself so I was challenged and see where it took me.

I didn’t want to rush promotion and get ahead of myself and I have recently had a child (nearly 2 now) so I did the progression from 7-5 in 1 and a 3/4 seasons. (I got my level 5 two weeks ago). This was only being available 3/4 Saturdays a month and a handful of Sundays across the season.

I found the promotion process brilliant and really helpful. You get assigned a coach and I learnt a huge amount for that. I started to get on some really good games with good referees at a high level which I learnt a huge amount from.

I have really enjoyed it, I am now considering going for Level 4 but.. I am very conscious that I do not feel that I can commit to the process of that. Unfortunately, I am now stuck a little bit at 5 because there are rumours that level 4s will be used next year for the senior prem county games that I am being appointed to now. So I feel like, next year, I may be refereeing at a lower level than I am now just because of this fact.

In summary, keep your feet on the ground but certainly a really good and beneficial process to go through, in my opinion.
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This is really valuable insight, is there a much bigger jump required in terms of commitment between 5 and 4?

I assume this is in part due to more midweek games and longer distances to travel?
 
People on here more qualified to answer that than me.. however I have keenly followed all of the answers on this to make sure I know what I am signing myself up for..

In short yes .. more to loyal time out of house… earlier arrival time, longer travelling and stay after game etc .. for essentially not much more money than level 5. (There is a good thread on money and level 4 on this forum if you can find it) search level 4.

I am an Assistant Head teacher as well so my commitment added to the fact I have a young family, it’s a massive balance for me so I enjoy not having that pressure. If I am not available for a whole month then so be it!

If I was to ever go for level 4 I would only do it if I knew I was in a position to put the commitment to it. Having said that.. I would really like to do it just for the experience and learning and the process even if I didn’t get promoted at the end of it!
 
I qualified in January last year. Really struggled getting the coaching reports in to get promotions. As due to the rain etc, all my coached games would get cancelled.

Got level 6 in October and level 5 in February. Been told I can get on the 4 pathway in July, no sooner.

This to me feels fast and I am super keen to progress at the fastest rate they will let me / I am able to.

I haven't received any training outside of the 2 days joining course, I pretty much get all my information on here/youtube and stalking @JamesL posts, + the FA website.

There are a few times I have been told to slow down, and appointment officers and referees at the RA have made comments.

Also politics is hard. I think rushing into the community you don't understand the relationships of leagues and secretaries etc. You will probably be clued up having played.

Had an observer watch me on the line recently, and at the full-time debrief he was angry at me, saying things direct and accusing me of doing things on purpose (e.g I spoke to the keeper at half-time away from the refereeing team and someone was vaping in the far bench). Had to explain I'm new, learning and he needs to chill out. He completed stopped but I think people just expect you to know.
 
The thing I’m most encouraged by is that there appears to be a willingness to encourage promotion as early as possible, and perhaps take you to a level that’s challenging enough to provide enough experience to keep testing you.

Myself and my wife both work full time and have a young daughter, although I feel I could commit a few hours Saturday and Sunday, and my working day is finished by around 3pm weekdays so a couple of evenings a week could work for me.

As has been mentioned above, I’d like to provide a strong amount of commitment to allow room for progression.
 
BSLNK21 said:
The thing I’m most encouraged by is that there appears to be a willingness to encourage promotion as early as possible, and perhaps take you to a level that’s challenging enough to provide enough experience to keep testing you.

Myself and my wife both work full time and have a young daughter, although I feel I could commit a few hours Saturday and Sunday, and my working day is finished by around 3pm weekdays so a couple of evenings a week could work for me.

As has been mentioned above, I’d like to provide a strong amount of commitment to allow room for progression.
Click to expand...

As @OldNavyRef eluded to as well .. you have to be a great people person.. you come across people from all walks of life. A willingness to learn and take on board things and a high level of emotional intelligence will help! Some people it’s their way or no way. Some will deliberately throw you under the bus, some are lovely and very experienced and you will learn huge amounts from them!
 
JamesL said:
3. Not really a barrier. All CFAs will run progression pathways. Be proactive. It's not the RDOs job to do your admin. Often people mistake their poor admin as the rdo's fault. (Remember it's not on a plate you have to go get it).
Click to expand...

More than half the county FAs use a system I write to do referee promotion admin. There is a very considerable difference between them in terms of how switched on the RDO is and how many observers/coaches they have available. Getting two coaches out to the same referee in three months (the minimum time for a 7->6 now) is absolutely doable at some counties and a pipe dream at others.

OP says he's in Shropshire and that is one of the counties I don't deal with so I can't be of any help there.
 
Trip said:
More than half the county FAs use a system I write to do referee promotion admin. There is a very considerable difference between them in terms of how switched on the RDO is and how many observers/coaches they have available. Getting two coaches out to the same referee in three months (the minimum time for a 7->6 now) is absolutely doable at some counties and a pipe dream at others.

OP says he's in Shropshire and that is one of the counties I don't deal with so I can't be of any help there.
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Is it refsec? or a different one?
 
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