Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Think of your best games?
Performance mark wise?
There should be a trend of high marks accompanied by low dissent card count
A constant reminder throughout the match.
- Thread starter Ryanj91
- Start date
Think of your best games?
Performance mark wise?
There should be a trend of high marks accompanied by low dissent card count
Was your supervisor Wayne Rooney or CR7?
Interesting topic.
IMO, the main reason we make mistakes is distraction. Not only is it supposedly forbidden, but dissent is the major enemy when it comes to 'taking our eye off the ball'. Dissent (distraction) and mistakes are self perpetuating chicken'n'egg partners.
The dissenter might be right on occasion, but that thought only lends itself to a head-screw which buggers us up for sure
Unable to speak from experience, I'd imagine that resilience to distraction to be a developing competency as one officiates in front of growing spectator numbers (because football fans are generally full of fog horn *$#^)
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Consider that clip of the Australian? ref we had on here at the weekend, awarding the goal after chatting to AR and watching the telly...
correct call, and hey, no dissent.
correct call, and hey, no dissent.
one
RefChat Addict
Thank you Mr/Ms Supervisor. Next time I get dissent I will change my decision. Because clearly I must have got it wrong.
One swallow doesn't make a summer
The mans a buffoon...Some players just aren't happy full stop, they'd argue if they lost the toss, a bit like Brexit, they'd want best of three!!!
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Dissent tends to be PUBLIC, PERSISTENT or PERSONAL. This is persistent.
After a quiet 'let it go' comment, if he keeps it up pull him aside and tell him he's going in the book if he keeps harping on about the penalty. He's showing disagreement, undermining your authority and trying to get under your skin. Definitely earns a card if he persists.
I don't. That's one of the most incorrect things I've ever heard. It's completely and utterly untrue and I agree with others, something harmful to be spreading especially to newer referees. I don't think there's much correlation at all, if any, between correctness of decisions and level of dissent.
What you are claiming is that every referee who is giving warnings or cards for dissent/abuse is only doing so because they're out there making mistakes. Utter tosh.
So? One clip doesn't mean anything. Easy to find plenty of correct decisions with players mobbing and abusing, even assaulting the referee. Not a single defender appealed for the decision anyway, so he's simply given the decision that 22 players agreed with (and inexplicably wasted everybody's time to do so).
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Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Your best performances, with the highest marks, (official marks, not club marks), will run in tandem with the lower dissent card count
Therefore the better your display, (I/e getting calls right), the lower the dissent
That's my opinion and even if nobody else in galaxy agrees with it, really sorry, not, but, am allowed entitled to it. Same as other folk are perfectly entitled to say disagree with it.
Therefore the better your display, (I/e getting calls right), the lower the dissent
That's my opinion and even if nobody else in galaxy agrees with it, really sorry, not, but, am allowed entitled to it. Same as other folk are perfectly entitled to say disagree with it.
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CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Some of the worst decisions I've made I received little dissent on. I've had games where I haven't put a foot wrong yet received a ridiculous amount of dissent/abuse.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Of course you're entitled to this (and any other) opinion. And actually, you'll probably get the majority on here agreeing with the above.
However this position is fundamentally different to your first post which simply said ..
It's this black and white perspective that I (and seemingly many others) have an issue with.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
You missed quoting the part which said, its not gospel.
Better you referee, (getting calls right), better the mark, lesser the dissent
Clearly going to be hard pushed to find zero dissent.
Nothing is ever black or white.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Well, you're wrong mate. Simple as.
Your notion above suggests that the players are the judge (via their dissent or not) of whether your call is right. That's rubbish. You're impartial. They're not. Even if you're technically wrong, your call has to be more "right" than their biased one.
Dissent might well stem from a player's initial disagreement with one of your decisions, but in it's normal form, it's basically the way that players publicly undermine the referee and his authority/confidence/match control. 99.99% of the time, dissent is deliberately audible and/or visible to all on the pitch. That's why it's carded.
Having a good game and marrying it up with low dissent simply means that on that particular match, players either generally agreed with your decisions or just chose not to gob off. It doesn't mean you got the decisions right.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Ok, well, based entirely on my actual experience as a referee,there is a clear pattern that the higher standard of report, the less occurance of dissent
And, entirely based on personal experience of compiling reports, its clear as day the better the referee performed, the less occurance of dissent there was
So, with the factual evidence I have to work off, better the performance, lesser the dissent.
Cant be right or wrong on an opinion based subject. Its impossible to be so.
And, entirely based on personal experience of compiling reports, its clear as day the better the referee performed, the less occurance of dissent there was
So, with the factual evidence I have to work off, better the performance, lesser the dissent.
Cant be right or wrong on an opinion based subject. Its impossible to be so.
Lower dissent and higher marks is coincidence not causality.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Over space of xx years? No
If was an isolated game, yes, but, going back on stacks of observations, no
You're wrong. You'll be telling me next that because you prayed every night for the sun to come up in the morning and it did, prayer works.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
I posted the following on a Supply league FB group that has been discussing the introduction of Sin Bins at Step 5 and 6 next season:
As a referee I see dissent being caused by 4 main things
1) bad decisions by the referee (yes it happens, sometimes we do get it wrong, but I'd still argue that in general our decision making accuracy is always far better than every player on the pitch throughout the course of the game). Often that causes a bubble up of anger or frustration that leads to dissent and cards. Every referee I know is their biggest critic, so when we do get it wrong, we analyze why we did and how we can make sure we don't do it again
2) "transference of blame" some players want to use the referee as a target to deflect blame from their own mistakes, that throw in on half way that may have taken a nick off the opponent, that leads to a goal, it's the referees fault, not the fault of the full back that subsequently got skinned or the 2 central defenders and goalkeeper that couldn't defend the cross into the box leading to the goal.
3) the tight decisions that we have to make, especially KMI'S. We get one look at it and give it as we see it. Even if you watch football on the TV you'll have some decisions where a group of "experts" can't agree on what the decision should be and in every game there are probably 2 or 3 instances like that, though some are more important than others.
4) players and managers not actually knowing the laws of the game. I've lost count of the number of times players have argued themselves into the book when they are completely incorrect in law. Examples:
A. it's hit his hand and he's gained an advantage (next season maybe, this season it's not a consideration)
B. You can't book me, I didn't swear at you - sorry pal the offence is "dissent by word or action"
C. You can't say " leave it" yep you can, it's only an offence if it's done to deliberately distract and opponent, in which case he's getting a card.
My personal view is that if players and managers spent more time on knowing the key laws (specifically law 12), then a lot of dissent would be wiped out, because there would be a clear understanding as to what the referee is looking at and penalizing. I'm pretty certain that active referees would be happy to come into clubs in pre season and spend some time with them to help build a greater level of understanding.
As for the whole double dissent, it depends on how quick you get the second yellow out. I've done it once and there was zero complaint. The player carried on long enough after clearly being told to go away that his team mates were telling him to shut up otherwise he was going to get sent off and when he carried on and I hit the 2nd Yellow and Red, his teammates were calling him the names for being so stupid.
As a referee I see dissent being caused by 4 main things
1) bad decisions by the referee (yes it happens, sometimes we do get it wrong, but I'd still argue that in general our decision making accuracy is always far better than every player on the pitch throughout the course of the game). Often that causes a bubble up of anger or frustration that leads to dissent and cards. Every referee I know is their biggest critic, so when we do get it wrong, we analyze why we did and how we can make sure we don't do it again
2) "transference of blame" some players want to use the referee as a target to deflect blame from their own mistakes, that throw in on half way that may have taken a nick off the opponent, that leads to a goal, it's the referees fault, not the fault of the full back that subsequently got skinned or the 2 central defenders and goalkeeper that couldn't defend the cross into the box leading to the goal.
3) the tight decisions that we have to make, especially KMI'S. We get one look at it and give it as we see it. Even if you watch football on the TV you'll have some decisions where a group of "experts" can't agree on what the decision should be and in every game there are probably 2 or 3 instances like that, though some are more important than others.
4) players and managers not actually knowing the laws of the game. I've lost count of the number of times players have argued themselves into the book when they are completely incorrect in law. Examples:
A. it's hit his hand and he's gained an advantage (next season maybe, this season it's not a consideration)
B. You can't book me, I didn't swear at you - sorry pal the offence is "dissent by word or action"
C. You can't say " leave it" yep you can, it's only an offence if it's done to deliberately distract and opponent, in which case he's getting a card.
My personal view is that if players and managers spent more time on knowing the key laws (specifically law 12), then a lot of dissent would be wiped out, because there would be a clear understanding as to what the referee is looking at and penalizing. I'm pretty certain that active referees would be happy to come into clubs in pre season and spend some time with them to help build a greater level of understanding.
As for the whole double dissent, it depends on how quick you get the second yellow out. I've done it once and there was zero complaint. The player carried on long enough after clearly being told to go away that his team mates were telling him to shut up otherwise he was going to get sent off and when he carried on and I hit the 2nd Yellow and Red, his teammates were calling him the names for being so stupid.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Sorry, based on my own experience, what am saying I can back up
If other folk have different figures, that's also fine.
Cant be wrong on an opinion. You can disagree with it. But, nobody can be right or wrong on it
one
RefChat Addict
I must admit didn't read this entirely But I think you missed personality. Some people can not accept authority. Believe it or not some people have problems taking directions from others half their age. I know many Female referees who have refereed men having trouble taking directions from a female.
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You can be wrong on an opinion when you've based your opinion on a premise that states c is true because a is low and b is high - if a and b have no causality. You may as well say b was high because I wore black boots. It is nothing more than coincidence.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Really? I think (without counting), near 100 reports and the trend is there, is personal proof enough
better the report, less the mentions of dissent
I factually (even if its only just me) find this to be accurate when observing, based again factually on xxx number of different referees at different levels over a number of years...reading them back...the better the report reads, the less instances of dissent mentioned
The reports where managers where binned and so on.....in tandem with a poorer referee performance
As said, perfectly fine if that does not add to with anybody else, ever. but it certainly adds up with me so am entitled to have that viewpoint.