Arsenal vs Cardiff
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santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I think AR is badly positioned. I’ve been taught to always follow the GK when she’s throwing from the hand so you are ready for handling offences or interference with the GK.
However, even if the AR was in the right place, this is one of those calls that football doesn’t expect.
At grassroots/kids with ARs I’ve had this. AR calls it last minute and the subsequent DFK is the only goal. Unfortunately it’s very pernicious. I think it’s sensible to warn first at grassroots/kids.
At EPL, lord, I wonder if it’s in the preseason briefing?
Is VAR coming back for this if there’s a goal at the other end?
However, even if the AR was in the right place, this is one of those calls that football doesn’t expect.
At grassroots/kids with ARs I’ve had this. AR calls it last minute and the subsequent DFK is the only goal. Unfortunately it’s very pernicious. I think it’s sensible to warn first at grassroots/kids.
At EPL, lord, I wonder if it’s in the preseason briefing?
Is VAR coming back for this if there’s a goal at the other end?
Yampy
RefChat Addict
Occurs more commonly in Futsal where, I'd be talking and warning to prevent further problems. I'd be wanting the AR to take some responsibility here and do likewise.
Overall, it is very difficult to assess at what point the ball and hand separate. I'd argue there's similar situations to this on a number of throw-ins during a game. (Although I guess the ball isn't in play until released)
Overall, it is very difficult to assess at what point the ball and hand separate. I'd argue there's similar situations to this on a number of throw-ins during a game. (Although I guess the ball isn't in play until released)
one
RefChat Addict
Same here in futsal. It's a lot easier though with specific positioning at Futsal. you are closer and you are effectively an AR.
Throw in and handball has been the subject of at least a couple of threads here. When the ball is in play has nothing to do with release. It's in play as soon as it enters the FOP. I call it the only legal deliberate handball by a field player.
Throw in and handball has been the subject of at least a couple of threads here. When the ball is in play has nothing to do with release. It's in play as soon as it enters the FOP. I call it the only legal deliberate handball by a field player.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
neigh impossible to call that at grass roots. (as referee without ARs)
in the pic, the AR is 2/3 yards out of position, he is with the last defender and not the second last one. I would like to think here, AR stays 2nd last defender and ref needs to double up on gk and next phase of play. However the above poster covers an alternative take on it, which would also suit.
AR is stuck, he cant even say on comms, I THINK thats out the box, as, that's not words we want to hear, we need, I KNOW, and, he simply wont be able to say that.
Had it been other gk, am pretty sure crowd noise would have impacted the chain of thought.
It would be a surprise to see this awarded, and, I think it needs to be filed away in the, missed it, box
in the pic, the AR is 2/3 yards out of position, he is with the last defender and not the second last one. I would like to think here, AR stays 2nd last defender and ref needs to double up on gk and next phase of play. However the above poster covers an alternative take on it, which would also suit.
AR is stuck, he cant even say on comms, I THINK thats out the box, as, that's not words we want to hear, we need, I KNOW, and, he simply wont be able to say that.
Had it been other gk, am pretty sure crowd noise would have impacted the chain of thought.
It would be a surprise to see this awarded, and, I think it needs to be filed away in the, missed it, box
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
Not a good picture to use, the GK is at an angle and has already released the ball, so there's no way to tell whether the ball was released outside the area, inside the area, or on the line.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I'm guessing the AR was not expecting the GK to be trying to start a counter here, as he appears to be just walking up. In my view, most potential handling violations on a GK throw or punt are doubtful/trifling (perhaps less so when the GK is trying to start an attack than in a slow return of the ball to the field). I don't know what they expect at the top levels, but in the games I do, I'm not calling this unless it's blatant/clear or the GK has been warned already. This one (based solely on the one still photo) to me looks too close to call, even if the AR were in the right position.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
You were not taught to follow in line with the GK on kicks from the hand and throw outs then?
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
AR to be on line with second last defender....
Of course checking back and lingering around if required and always adapting.
Gk kicking from hand with 2nd last defender touching half way line is asking for trouble?
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I mean the other way round... when the GK sprints to the edge of the box past players... I’ve been taught to go with the keeper to watch for handling offences and adjust after release...
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Cant see a right or wrong, I would look for AR to stay with 2nd last defender and ref to watch the throw but as long as right call is reached
I was always told to watch out for this but not to get involved unless it was blatant. If he's clearly outside then you'd expect the flag, but if, like this, it's hard to tell then shouting across to warn him he's getting close stops him going a bit further next time so you do have to penalise him.
(Why's the Referee throwing the ball out of the area anyway?
)
(Why's the Referee throwing the ball out of the area anyway?
)I'd personally rather be in line with second-last defender in case the ball comes back quickly, than looking for something that nobody expects to be given.
I did a game with Andy Halliday not long after he had been suspended for incorrectly ruling that Pepe Reina had handled the ball out of the area during a drop kick. His pre-match instructions included the line of "if you think the keeper handled it outside of the area on a drop kick don't be a @$%* like me and keep your flag down" …. 
This is too close to call, the AR has to judge the exact moment that the ball is last in contact with the hand and that is nigh on impossible real time. Only ever going to be penalised if a lot more blatant than this.
This is too close to call, the AR has to judge the exact moment that the ball is last in contact with the hand and that is nigh on impossible real time. Only ever going to be penalised if a lot more blatant than this.
I gave quite a few of these, no linos too, its pretty obvious when they do it especially if you hang back for the odd one if you suspect he's doing it!! They seriously dont like it when you call it!!!
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Always been told to (loudly) warn GKs if they start to overstep or overthrow the pen area. Refs have then said they are happy for me to call hand ball IF GK warned previously.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I did a game with Andy Halliday not long after he had been suspended for incorrectly ruling that Pepe Reina had handled the ball out of the area during a drop kick. His pre-match instructions included the line of "if you think the keeper handled it outside of the area on a drop kick don't be a @$%* like me and keep your flag down" ….
This is too close to call, the AR has to judge the exact moment that the ball is last in contact with the hand and that is nigh on impossible real time. Only ever going to be penalised if a lot more blatant than this.
While there are the occasional bad violations (I've called them), at least with newish refs/ARs most of the time I have seen it called the call has been in error--most commonly when the ball is released by the GK over the line and the kick takes place outside the PA.* Unfortunately there are a surprising number of refs who don't know exactly what they are supposed to be looking for. I was R for a 14U playoff game and my AR flagged for this. I waved it down as I thought it was, if correct, trifling, and warned the keeper to be careful about the line. I cheated back for the next few, and when I got another flag for the same thing, waved it down as I was positive it was not a violation. (Of course, the parents were becoming unglued as I had now (grossly unfairly, of course) denied them two great scoring opportunities! My AR asked me why I waved him down when the plant foot was clearly outside the PA.
Somewhere he had picked up that was what he was supposed to watch for, and completely lost track of the concept behind what he was looking for._________
*When I coached my son when he was young (and therefore had mostly new refs), he got called incorrectly for this a few times. I kept telling him not to take that extra step because it didn't matter that it was actually legal: he was giving the AR or R a chance to make a bad call, and they were.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I dont understand this. Maybe its just how its written. Surely if you are shouting out loud that they have over stepped or over thrown, you are duty bound to penalise it?
Or do you mean, in the act of throwing it, it looks like they may carry it out of the area??