Arsenal vs Cardiff

[socal lurker]

I dont understand this. Maybe its just how its written. Surely if you are shouting out loud that they have over stepped or over thrown, you are duty bound to penalise it?
Or do you mean, in the act of throwing it, it looks like they may carry it out of the area??

Many (most) violations by a GK who is releasing the ball* are doubtful or trifling. We are not duty bound to punish trifling infractions. I agree that where a GK may have violated but not by much, the appropriate response is to warn the GK. the warning is to be careful about the line, not that they in fact violated.
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*The GK being outside of the PA and stopping an attack is a completely different thing--being outside at all is not trifling in that context.

 

[JamesL]

I dont understand this. Maybe its just how its written. Surely if you are shouting out loud that they have over stepped or over thrown, you are duty bound to penalise it?
Or do you mean, in the act of throwing it, it looks like they may carry it out of the area??

If you are clever about it you shout along the lines of very close there keeper. Be careful. Have heard this instructions down here on many occasions about giving a chance first before penalising.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Many (most) violations by a GK who is releasing the ball* are doubtful or trifling. We are not duty bound to punish trifling infractions. I agree that where a GK may have violated but not by much, the appropriate response is to warn the GK. the warning is to be careful about the line, not that they in fact violated.
____________
*The GK being outside of the PA and stopping an attack is a completely different thing--being outside at all is not trifling in that context.

Sorry maybe I never phrased it the way i meant it......I do not think its suitable to shout, say "keeper you over carried there don't do it again". If he has over carried, its a foul that you must penalise. You cant look at a tackle foul, let it go, then shout back "you fouled there but am not giving the foul don't do it again". GK over carrying is the same,
Absolute nonsense to say "not by much", as what next, ball over line, but, not by much?
Offside, but, not by much? Either the keeper has over carried, and its an offence, or, the keeper has not over carried, and its no offence
Totally different bottle of aftershave to be clever about it as per James ans use the "very close" example.

But to suggest, if am reading it right, you have judged the gk to over carry yet decide not to penalise it, yet warn him not to do it again, am sorry , that's neglecting your duties.

if we are not sure if he has infringed or not, then an advisory is suitable.

 

[PinnerPaul]

I dont understand this. Maybe its just how its written. Surely if you are shouting out loud that they have over stepped or over thrown, you are duty bound to penalise it?
Or do you mean, in the act of throwing it, it looks like they may carry it out of the area??

It REALLY means you don't penalise the 1st one and/or minor transgressions and shout a 'warning', then IF you do punish one its not a complete surprise.

Bearing in mind we don't punish ANY transgressions of the 6 second rule...……………………………………..

 

[PinnerPaul]

Sorry maybe I never phrased it the way i meant it......I do not think its suitable to shout, say "keeper you over carried there don't do it again". If he has over carried, its a foul that you must penalise. You cant look at a tackle foul, let it go, then shout back "you fouled there but am not giving the foul don't do it again". GK over carrying is the same,
Absolute nonsense to say "not by much", as what next, ball over line, but, not by much?
Offside, but, not by much? Either the keeper has over carried, and its an offence, or, the keeper has not over carried, and its no offence
Totally different bottle of aftershave to be clever about it as per James ans use the "very close" example.

But to suggest, if am reading it right, you have judged the gk to over carry yet decide not to penalise it, yet warn him not to do it again, am sorry , that's neglecting your duties.

if we are not sure if he has infringed or not, then an advisory is suitable.

6 seconds???????? = We don't even warn for that. There is no justification for ignoring but we all do. Its no different - in fact its better - at least I have seen the handball punished, unlike the lesser spotted 6 second infringement.

 

[socal lurker]

if we are not sure if he has infringed or not, then an advisory is suitable.

There are two ways to look at this. One way is to say that every time we are sure the GK carried the ball out by a millimeter in releasing the ball it should be called, just as we call ball out of play. The other way to look at it is to say that barely carrying the ball over the line is trifling in the context of releasing the ball.

I'd say the first is the proper way to look at this. Carrying the ball slightly out is trifling. And just as we might say "watch the arms" when there is trifling pushing going on--and might consider it less trifling if it continues--I think it is fully appropriate to warn the GK on trifling violations of carrying the ball outside the PA, and be more wary of it if it continues.

Of course, if you take the second approach, then you aren't going to warn. But IMHO that is not what the Game expects.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

There are two ways to look at this. One way is to say that every time we are sure the GK carried the ball out by a millimeter in releasing the ball it should be called, just as we call ball out of play. The other way to look at it is to say that barely carrying the ball over the line is trifling in the context of releasing the ball.

I'd say the first is the proper way to look at this. Carrying the ball slightly out is trifling. And just as we might say "watch the arms" when there is trifling pushing going on--and might consider it less trifling if it continues--I think it is fully appropriate to warn the GK on trifling violations of carrying the ball outside the PA, and be more wary of it if it continues.

Of course, if you take the second approach, then you aren't going to warn. But IMHO that is not what the Game expects.

I understand and I don't think I worded by reply(s) the way I intended.

No way am I wishing every lice hair over the line to be examined....I was meaning when it was clearly out, you either ignore it, or you give it.....you cant ignore the fact it was out by not penalising it but then issue a "you took it out of the box last time be careful" warning, however ideally, you can issue a "careful" warning

Just like the 6 secs one, you can shout, hurry up, get on with it, keeper, time, whatever but you cannot shout out "keeper that's 10 secs" because that is simply punishable end of. You have absolutely nowhere to go.

 

[RustyRef]

You just say "keeper, be careful you are getting very close to the edge of the area", that's what people mean by getting a warning to him.

Don't do what one of my assistants once did when he shouted "keeper, you were miles outside there" …

 

[Peter Grove]

Many (most) violations by a GK who is releasing the ball* are doubtful or trifling. We are not duty bound to punish trifling infractions. I agree that where a GK may have violated but not by much, the appropriate response is to warn the GK. the warning is to be careful about the line, not that they in fact violated.

In the context of this situation and if using the 'doubtful or trifling' principle I think it's more appropriate to apply the other part of the criteria. Assuming you're not precisely in line with the edge of the penalty area to be able to judge it 100% accurately and if it's very close (as it often is) then for me I'd feel more comfortable classing it as a doubtful offence, rather than a trifling one. It's also the reason why you'd warn the keeper in the first instance, because although you suspect they may have handled it outside the area, you're not absolutely sure.