What I meant was, do you get the names of the substitutes before the game? If it was rolling subs, when a player substituted becomes a sub himself, then you need the names of all the players. Otherwise you are not complying with Law.
Cautioning
- Thread starter jojo
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In that case, if the names of the subs are not provided before the game, then you should not allow the teams to make any substitutions.
if I were you, I would not referee for that competition, if they do not allow you to comply with Law. I would also talk to my RDO for advice on this situation, as they might tell you to do something different.
That being the case Brian, assuming there are no team sheets, the referee doesn't have the names of ANY players. Does that mean you can't allow anybody to play? This sounds very similar to one of the leagues I officiate in (could be the same one?) and the lack of team sheets can be an issue, particularly when trying to report cautions. The players are listed on match cards that are signed by the ref at the end of the game, but, as i've found out to my cost in the past, managers do give false names from time to time. Having said that, I've spoken to my RDO on a number of occasions and he doesn't seem to think there is an issue.
Brian, I referee in a couple of youth leagues in west Sussex, where we never break the law
in both leagues, there are no team sheets and we are only required to get the names of the starting subs
subs are roro and we are not required to get the names of the substituted players who then become subs
the teams themselves, including subs, have to be recorded on full time after the game by their respective managers
the referees send in their match reports, listing just the starting subs and, as i understand it, the referees secretary cross-checks the referees report against the info on full-time
all youth players have i.d. cards which have to be checked before kick-off, from u16 to u12 at least,. no card, no play
lotg - law 3 says that 'in all matches the names of the substitutes must be given to the referee prior to the start of the match. any substitute whose name is not given to the referee at this time may not take part in the match'
Notes on the lotg, Modifications for players of under 16 years of age says that modifications are permissable where substitutions are concerned
there is no mention of roro's in the lotg/interpretation - these appear in league rules
and whilst there are references to team lists for players, substitutes and team officials, there is nothing that says that player's names have to be given to the referee prior to the match, subs, yes, players, no. interpretation of law3 also says 'if the rules of a competition state that all of the players and substitutues must be named before kick-off'
note to self, must update my copy of lotg from 12/13 to 13/14
what league is this.......i have time on my hands, Matthew, and I feel a google coming on
Ah, now that would be giving too much away!
Matthew the requirement to name substitutes before the game or they cannot be used is set out in Law. Competition rules decide whether substitutes are rolling or not. Competition rules also decide on whether team sheets have to be provided, whether clubs should ring referees in advance of games to confirm colours being worn and also whether goal nets should be used.
Some of these are recommended and others are a necessity to control a game of football.
I agree haywain that modifications can be made for youth football but I'm not sure they extend to not naming any of the subs before a game. Starting subs being named would probably work for me.Brian, I referee in a couple of youth leagues in west Sussex, where we never break the law
in both leagues, there are no team sheets and we are only required to get the names of the starting subs
subs are roro and we are not required to get the names of the substituted players who then become subs
the teams themselves, including subs, have to be recorded on full time after the game by their respective managers
the referees send in their match reports, listing just the starting subs and, as i understand it, the referees secretary cross-checks the referees report against the info on full-time
all youth players have i.d. cards which have to be checked before kick-off, from u16 to u12 at least,. no card, no play
lotg - law 3 says that 'in all matches the names of the substitutes must be given to the referee prior to the start of the match. any substitute whose name is not given to the referee at this time may not take part in the match'
Notes on the lotg, Modifications for players of under 16 years of age says that modifications are permissable where substitutions are concerned
there is no mention of roro's in the lotg/interpretation - these appear in league rules
and whilst there are references to team lists for players, substitutes and team officials, there is nothing that says that player's names have to be given to the referee prior to the match, subs, yes, players, no. interpretation of law3 also says 'if the rules of a competition state that all of the players and substitutues must be named before kick-off'
note to self, must update my copy of lotg from 12/13 to 13/14
I always ask the manager of both sides if they have any subs and if yes I ask for their names. No names in my book, they are not coming on. When a sub is being made, I call that player over and ask him for his name, if it matches up, great, if not then the sub does not take place.
I have not known it to be any different.
I have not known it to be any different.
MattyontheWhistle
RefChat Addict
We have teamcards, handed to the ref before KO, with names and shirt numbers INCLUDING the named subs. RORO subs are easy, they are allowed 4 subs that can be rolled on/off as required. All four are named on the teamcard.
Any cautions or cards are recorded the usual way, name, number offence etc are noted in my book, post game, they are recorded on the teamcards, signed by me and handed to the coaches, who sign and swap with their opponents.
I send my report in, they send their cards in. We've never had an issue.
Ref never needs to write the full name of players, or anything other than their shirt number in reality. If names and numbers don't tally on the team cards, then it becomes an issue for the Federation and the club, not the ref.
Any cautions or cards are recorded the usual way, name, number offence etc are noted in my book, post game, they are recorded on the teamcards, signed by me and handed to the coaches, who sign and swap with their opponents.
I send my report in, they send their cards in. We've never had an issue.
Ref never needs to write the full name of players, or anything other than their shirt number in reality. If names and numbers don't tally on the team cards, then it becomes an issue for the Federation and the club, not the ref.
There are no leagues in my neck of the woods where no teamsheets are used. It is a completely foreign concept to me.
Makes it so much easier - I've only got them in County Cup matches and it make it so much easier, particularly with regards to spellings.
In the Surrey County Girls League, which has teams such as QPR, Palace etc in them there is no requirement for the referee to have the teamsheets and full names of the players. It is the managers responsibility. Only in the cup games does it come into effect.
One of the rules of the competition is that each manager must give the opposing manager the official player ID cards, with photos, on them and roll call each player to avoid ringers playing, but the ref does not get involved in that.
One of the rules of the competition is that each manager must give the opposing manager the official player ID cards, with photos, on them and roll call each player to avoid ringers playing, but the ref does not get involved in that.
Dan, would you be able to upload the photo if you have one?
Also, I used this system in an academy match, but found it peeled off slightly, do you use 2 strips thick, or buy extra sticky tape? Cheers
I do struggle to write in tiny spaces such as the little boxes on match pads, so I am thinking of writing my team sheets in my notebook with numbers, when cautioning a player check his number is correct on the team sheet and then, using refsworld card skins to write the number and info on there.
Reffariiii
RefChat Addict
For me, the YC comes out to the player, then I write the number on the card. Two strips of masking tape, one for home one for away.