RefSix

Discussion of Law Changes

JH

RefChat Addict
#1
I'm all for fans seeing the new changes to law, but it is disappointing to see that some are getting information from poorly-written sites that cloud the changes. This particular site has the title: 'Premier League: The Six New Rules to be implemented' causing many to think it is just for the Premier League, the laws are explained horribly too. It is unfortunate that the IFAB publications don't go viral at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/bsej1m
 
#2
I agree, I have seen some supposed "explanations" of the upcoming law changes that in fact, just obfuscate them.

The most common mistake I've seen is the one mentioned in the link that says the changes in the penalty law mean the goalkeeper can no longer move along the line before the kick is taken.
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#3
The most common mistake I've seen is the one mentioned in the link that says the changes in the penalty law mean the goalkeeper can no longer move along the line before the kick is taken.
That one actually sent me back to the IFAB changes document... Turns out they misread the summary page.

Too late now though, that bit of misinformation is now out and about for the time being.
 
#4
I think the GK update is going to cause problems... here's the passage:
---
1. Procedure
• The ball must be stationary and is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team
• The ball is in play when it is kicked and clearly moves
• Opponents must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play

2. Offences and sanctions
If, after the ball is in play, the kicker touches the ball again before it has touched another player, an indirect free kick is awarded; if the kicker commits a handball offence:
• a direct free kick is awarded
• a penalty kick is awarded if the offence occurred inside the kicker’s penalty area, unless the kicker was the goalkeeper, in which case an indirect free kick is awarded

If, when a goal kick is taken, any opponents are inside the penalty area because they did not have time to leave, the referee allows play to continue. If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the goal kick is taken, or enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before it is in play, the goal kick is retaken.

If a player enters the penalty area before the ball is in play and fouls or is fouled by an opponent, the goal kick is retaken and the offender may be cautioned or sent off, depending on the offence. For any other offence, the kick is retaken.
---
Issue I think:
"...because they did not have time to leave" is vague.

This law change is designed to help teams play out from the back. It's the Pep law. Surely all teams facing City will have players lurk and slowly leave the box. I think it will be hard to manage.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#5
I think the GK update is going to cause problems... here's the passage:
---
1. Procedure
• The ball must be stationary and is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team
• The ball is in play when it is kicked and clearly moves
• Opponents must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play

2. Offences and sanctions
If, after the ball is in play, the kicker touches the ball again before it has touched another player, an indirect free kick is awarded; if the kicker commits a handball offence:
• a direct free kick is awarded
• a penalty kick is awarded if the offence occurred inside the kicker’s penalty area, unless the kicker was the goalkeeper, in which case an indirect free kick is awarded

If, when a goal kick is taken, any opponents are inside the penalty area because they did not have time to leave, the referee allows play to continue. If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the goal kick is taken, or enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before it is in play, the goal kick is retaken.

If a player enters the penalty area before the ball is in play and fouls or is fouled by an opponent, the goal kick is retaken and the offender may be cautioned or sent off, depending on the offence. For any other offence, the kick is retaken.
---
Issue I think:
"...because they did not have time to leave" is vague.

This law change is designed to help teams play out from the back. It's the Pep law. Surely all teams facing City will have players lurk and slowly leave the box. I think it will be hard to manage.
But it's the responsibility of the team to wait for players to have left. It's the same as quick free kick if player within 10 yards. It's down to the team with possession to decide when they are ready to take it.
If players are dawdling, delaying the restart, then deal with it as such.
 
#6
I’ve heard others concerned about this, but I just don’t see it. Teams that want to play short inside the PA are just going to wait till opponents leave. Just the same as you don’t play a short FK to a teammate with an opponent standing there. No biggie.
 
#7
But it's the responsibility of the team to wait for players to have left. It's the same as quick free kick if player within 10 yards. It's down to the team with possession to decide when they are ready to take it.
If players are dawdling, delaying the restart, then deal with it as such.
And how is that working right now with quick free kicks? As we see every week in every major league, players get away with standing right on top of the kick taker virtually every time and (unless it's near the opponent's penalty area and they decide to make it ceremonial) referees overwhelmingly ignore it. That being the case, what makes you think they're going to 'deal with it' at goal kicks?
 
#8
I’ve heard others concerned about this, but I just don’t see it. Teams that want to play short inside the PA are just going to wait till opponents leave. Just the same as you don’t play a short FK to a teammate with an opponent standing there. No biggie.
I disagree - I think this is one of the biggest blights on the modern game. The way opponents regularly flout the required distance law at free kicks and get away with it almost without exception is an absolute scandal (IMHO). Extending this to goal kicks will just make it worse.
 
#9
Changing the area under discussion slightly, did anyone else notice an apparent contradiction between the provisions of laws 10 and 12 in regard to a goal scored by a goalkeeper using the hand/arm?

The amendment to law 10 states:
If the goalkeeper throws the ball directly into the opponents’ goal, a goal kick is awarded.
In law 12, under the section on Direct Free Kick offences it says that:
It is an offence if a player:
[...]
scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
So in law 10 they're saying that a goal scored directly from the hand/arm of a goalie is a goal kick and in law 10 they say it's classified as a DFK offence. I know this is extremely unlikely to ever happen and even if it did I think we know which one should be applied. I'm sure the IFAB would not want a penalty awarded in such circumstances - but that's what a literal reading of law 12 seems to imply.
 

Nij

Active Member
#10
Changing the area under discussion slightly, did anyone else notice an apparent contradiction between the provisions of laws 10 and 12 in regard to a goal scored by a goalkeeper using the hand/arm?

The amendment to law 10 states:


In law 12, under the section on Direct Free Kick offences it says that:


So in law 10 they're saying that a goal scored directly from the hand/arm of a goalie is a goal kick and in law 10 they say it's classified as a DFK offence. I know this is extremely unlikely to ever happen and even if it did I think we know which one should be applied. I'm sure the IFAB would not want a penalty awarded in such circumstances - but that's what a literal reading of law 12 seems to imply.
Goalkeepers can't be penalised by a DFK for a handling offence in their own box, so at worst this would be an IFK in the goalkeeper's own PA.
That said, they're clearly thinking about the goalkeeper who pushes forward for the last-minute corner, and punches or elbows the ball into the goal instead of heading or using the body.
 
#11
The new laws says an attacker cant stand with one metre of "a wall" at a free kick and a wall consists of three or more players, does that mean its ok for an attacker to stand next to a two man wall ?
 
#12
That said, they're clearly thinking about the goalkeeper who pushes forward for the last-minute corner, and punches or elbows the ball into the goal instead of heading or using the body.
I don't think that's clear at all. There's no other part of the laws where they make a special provision for what happens if an offence is committed by a goalkeeper outside their own penalty area. If they're outside their penalty area, the keeper is treated exactly the same as any other player so there's no reason I can think of, why would they make a special provision in this case, for a keeper outside their area. The only exceptions noted for offences by keepers are where they are inside their penalty area, not outside it.

I think it's much more likely that it's an oversight and what they meant to indicate is that a goal cannot be scored directly off the hand of a player, including the keeper when inside their own penalty area but failed to realise that they'd included this in the section dealing with Direct Free Kick offences.
 
#14
I disagree - I think this is one of the biggest blights on the modern game. The way opponents regularly flout the required distance law at free kicks and get away with it almost without exception is an absolute scandal (IMHO). Extending this to goal kicks will just make it worse.
Not quite my point. I just don’t think we’re going to see the kind of lurking because it’s ineffective. We see interference with kicks in the attacking half. We really don’t see it very often with OS FKs outside the PA now. So I just don’t think this is going to be a big deal—and there isn’t a loophole to steal the ball, as the team taking the GK can wait for them to clear. I agree that refs will have to deal with it if it happens, I just don’t think it’s going to be happening. (I also agree with you that the game would be better if refs more effectively addressed the issue on FKs.)
 
#15
I guess time will tell but in games I've seen with this amendment in effect (most recent women's international friendlies, in preparation for the World Cup, have been using the new laws) attackers have often been in the penalty area when goal kicks were taken (and challenged for the ball almost immediately) and the referees did nothing to prevent this - probably because the "not enough time" clause gives an automatic 'out' for this.

Also, think of the potential benefits to an attacking team if they can intercept or challenge for the ball and win it back within 6 yards of their opponents' goal. Once teams realise this (which I don't think a lot of the women's teams did yet) I reckon they'll be trying their hardest to win the ball in a location that gives then a relatively high chance of scoring. Most free kicks in the defending team's half don't offer the same level of clear and immediate benefits.
 
#17
I guess time will tell but in games I've seen with this amendment in effect (most recent women's international friendlies, in preparation for the World Cup, have been using the new laws) attackers have often been in the penalty area when goal kicks were taken (and challenged for the ball almost immediately) and the referees did nothing to prevent this - probably because the "not enough time" clause gives an automatic 'out' for this.

Also, think of the potential benefits to an attacking team if they can intercept or challenge for the ball and win it back within 6 yards of their opponents' goal. Once teams realise this (which I don't think a lot of the women's teams did yet) I reckon they'll be trying their hardest to win the ball in a location that gives then a relatively high chance of scoring. Most free kicks in the defending team's half don't offer the same level of clear and immediate benefits.
I'm not sure I understand the problem. The opposing player still has to wait for the ball to leave the area before challenging for the ball - what do they gain by lingering?

Add to that the fact that any opponent who challenges for the ball, knowing he is doing so before the ball is in play, would open themselves to a caution for Delay Restart of Play and I don't think we will find many players trying to get tricky - at least not for long
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#18
I'm not sure I understand the problem. The opposing player still has to wait for the ball to leave the area before challenging for the ball - what do they gain by lingering?

Add to that the fact that any opponent who challenges for the ball, knowing he is doing so before the ball is in play, would open themselves to a caution for Delay Restart of Play and I don't think we will find many players trying to get tricky - at least not for long
I would go back and Re read the law change if I were you. More specifically about what point the ball is in play and when an opponent can challenge.

Once the ball is kicked and moves it is in play. From that point an opponent can challenge for it.
Unless they entered the area before it was in play and they had sufficient time to leave.
A quickly taken kick is fair game.

The ball leaving the area doesn't exist anymore.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#19
Just Re reading this law and have to say its poorly written (surprise surprise)

If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the goal kick is taken, or enters the
penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before
it is in play,
the goal kick is retaken.

This basically says that they can challenge for the ball as soon as its in play ie kicked and moved.

It doesn't say what happens if they were in the penalty area at the point it became in play and they challenge for it, nor at what point any restriction on challenging for the ball is lifted.

Guesses are it is referring to the old in play OR it means that the kick should be retaken but it still doesnt answer at what point any restriction is lifted.

Any1 shed any light on this one?
 
#20
I would go back and Re read the law change if I were you. More specifically about what point the ball is in play and when an opponent can challenge.

Once the ball is kicked and moves it is in play. From that point an opponent can challenge for it.
Unless they entered the area before it was in play and they had sufficient time to leave.
A quickly taken kick is fair game.

The ball leaving the area doesn't exist anymore.
Ooft
Thanks for pointing that out. It almost seems like they've hust done some tinkering on the Law and forgotten that if you change one part of the law you need to make sure that it doesn't affect the rest
 
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