Dissent Possible Mistake

[OldNavyRef]

Morning all,

I recently had a game. Young lads, top of their league clash and full of confidence.

Very difficult to manage. The boys immediately started back chatting everything and just generally making my life as difficult as possible from the start. Players constantly shouting behind my back 'refs against us lads' and parents chirping I'm too.

During a free kick outside the box for a blatant push/elbow in the back, a lad shouted to me the decision was a shambles. I was perfectly placed and it was stonewall.

I took him to the side for a quick cool down and a chat. He said for a second time I'm / my decision was a Shambles. Then a third time the words shambles left his mouth.

I sin binned him, after repeatedly warning him. As he walked off he mumbled, fairly loudly, sin binned because the ref is a shambles.

I called him back and sent him off, straight red. In my head just straight up, character assassination.

At the end of the game the coach of the offending lads respectfully had a chat with me. I made a decision that the straight red could potentially have been over kill, big suspension and big fine etc... So agreed to remove it.

I replaced it with a second sin bin, this wasn't agreed with the manager, just I believe was the right decision.

Have a screwed up. Can I do this? Would anyone have given a red in that situation. Was a red justifiable. Can I alter my report on reflection.

Be kind to me!

 

[JamesL]

It does sound like an over reaction to send off, as the language used isn't really offinabus (offensive insulting and/or abusive) appreciating that there are context and personal tolerance levels to take into account. Sounds more like further dissenting.

I'm going to work on assumption that it was not offinabus here:
Was this the same offence of dissent, in other words did you need to define this as 2 offences? Could you have encouraged the player to remove themselves to the temporary dismissal area with an "anymore and you won't come back?”

The sin bin after all is supposed to allow the player some time to cool off before returning.

The next bit, if you did see them as two separate offences of dissen, then we may still not need to show a red card. (I say may as if they have already committed another caution offence before then we do.)

The final part is that no, we don't really have the option ourselves to change our minds once play has restarted. What we should do, is if we believe it is wrongful dismissal, then we must report that a player was sent off, but add an extraordinary report to say we believe we made an error and why. Then its down to the discipline dept at county FA to decide.

 

[OldNavyRef]

Thanks James,

From my perspective, I was battling really hard to keep a level of respect and authority over the game. Not on a power trip, just to ensure credibility, integrity and safety. Also as someone a little older, I always spare a thought for some poor under 18 ref that might have these lads the next week.

When I sin binned him (after a 30 second conversation where he had every opportunity not to be sin binned), I was clear it ends here and to remove himself. I maybe could have just let him exit the pitch, but he was continuing dissent as he was walking off the pitch after I had shown the card. In my opinion once the card is shown, it is a close on the previous incident.

I am not pedantic or anything, I just felt he exceeded a very high threshold of disrespect which at that point I was actively trying to stamp it out.

The team had 1 more sin bin after this and the game turned back in to a match of football once that lad returned. 7 or 8 of the player on that team immediately started giving criticism to the boys that got themselves sin binned.

I also let a lot of low/medium level dissent go in that game in an attempt to just let the game flow. But I swear, they just keep trying to find the line and to push it. I'd let the keeper shouting, "refs against us lads" and 5 mins later they just step it up to "refs a complete shambles".

It was a fairly tricky one for me. The red for me was the tip of the ice berg.

 

[JamesL]

From my perspective, I was battling really hard to keep a level of respect and authority over the game. Not on a power trip, just to ensure credibility, integrity and safety. .

I'd like to touch upon this statement. It never does well for a sinbin to happen at the point the straw breaks the camels back. This statement to me suggests we allowed too much to go before we took action.

In refereeing we talk about a stepped approach. So warning a player, or a teams captain if multiple players causing issues, in the presence of one of the players that are causing problems.

Stepped approach ranges from, quiet word on the pass, a public admonishment without or with the captain to then proceed into disciplinary sanctions. Sometimes referred to as the 3 Bs. B*ollocking, booking, bath.

This does two things, it allows you to set a line and a threshold, but it also removes any element of surprise when you inevitably sanction a player.

For the more severe offences we can jump straight past the nicey nicey chats and go straight to cards but we should always take opportunities to set players up, or if we are successful, prevent them from committing misconduct.

As you gain experience as a referee this will feel more comfortable and you'll identify the opportunities more easily.

 

[gvu_ref]

The boys immediately started back chatting everything and just generally making my life as difficult as possible from the start. Players constantly shouting behind my back 'refs against us lads' and parents chirping I'm too.

Reffed a fair few hormonal teenagers in my time, and what I learnt was that you will never win an argument with a teenager, but you can end it.

Set your bar. doesn’t need to be out of the blue, make it clear. stop the game. Captains in, strategically close to either other players on pitch or the coach on sideline. RIGHT LADS THIS NEEDS TO STOP, NEXT ONE WHO SLATES MY DECISION GETS A REST FOR TEN MINUTES, LETS PLAY FOOTBALL PLEASE.

if if continues, make an example of one of them early on, don’t let it fester. Playing a man down is tiring. They will shut up and run more, or they will lose 10-0. Whichever they fancy.

If parents are a problem, I would stop game, engage with home team coach, explain problem. Remind them it’s their responsibility, ask for it to be fixed. and remind them, “please be positive as it helps the lads on the pitch to play better football”. If it doesn’t fix report to CFA.

side note; shambles is so tame I think he’s got on your last nerve rather than offended you.

Chin up, There will be better afternoons

 

[santa sangria]

I'd like to touch upon this statement. It never does well for a sinbin to happen at the point the straw breaks the camels back. This statement to me suggests we allowed too much to go before we took action.

In refereeing we talk about a stepped approach. So warning a player, or a teams captain if multiple players causing issues, in the presence of one of the players that are causing problems.

Stepped approach ranges from, quiet word on the pass, a public admonishment without or with the captain to then proceed into disciplinary sanctions. Sometimes referred to as the 3 Bs. B*ollocking, booking, bath.

This does two things, it allows you to set a line and a threshold, but it also removes any element of surprise when you inevitably sanction a player.

For the more severe offences we can jump straight past the nicey nicey chats and go straight to cards but we should always take opportunities to set players up, or if we are successful, prevent them from committing misconduct.

As you gain experience as a referee this will feel more comfortable and you'll identify the opportunities more easily.

He’s been hacked! Far too much good advice here!