A&H

Dissent to AR

Nalbi

Nalbi

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
Sorry about the lengthy thread, I needed to vent out and what better place than in the company of fellow referees!!
So I had the pleasure of being the AR a recent fixture: Oranges vs Blues. Straight off the bat, we were in for a feisty, challenging game. Both teams whinging and questioning every call, one team stood out the most: the blues, as they were leading the game for most of its duration but had the tables turned on them to eventually lose the tie.
One Blues player wasn't particularly happy with any of our decisions; first incident: gets fouled, his shoe comes off and rightly he was asked to leave the FOP to fix his equipment and get appropriate medical attention. He is eager to get back in, and as I was closer to him i asked him to hold on and let me quickly inspect his boots and give the ref a quick shout letting him know that you will come on. He refuses, grunts and calls me a ****head!! I told him to watch his language, pipe it down or else he will be cautioned for dissent. I mention that to the ref, who says he will deal with him and supposedly had a word.
Fast forward to another incident in the latter part of the game, Oranges leading a counter attack running down my flank, I'm up with the play; a blues player trying to close off the orange player runs full speed into his back using part of his shoulder to force him off the ball. Naturally the orange player goes down I flag for a foul and all hell on earth is unleashed! The ref backs me up but the blues are not happy and the earlier idiot comes charging at me calling me a cheat, with my referee stood 10-15 yards away. I again tell him to calm down and not be stupid, to which he shouts do you job properly you cheat! again nothing from the ref; I point out to our friend in the middle that he has called me a cheat twice and earlier a ***head so kindly deal with this appropriately. A quiet word is all what he had! He eventually gets a caution for the third incident where he comes in hastily lunging into a challenge and gets cautioned for arguing with the ref and putting his hands on him.

Game is over and he naturally doesn't want to shake our hands and calls us cheats for the third time, no reaction from the ref, no report no red card.

I'm thinking here, should i have nudged our friend in the middle and reminded him that he has a red card he should have used?

Just venting out, but all thoughts and advice is greatly appreciated!
 
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wow... did he cover that in his pre-match? ive usually been told in any pre-match that if i need to speak to the ref about a players behaviour its pretty much minimum of a caution to follow.
 
His prematch on that, be sensible about it if you can manage it on your own and doesn't require my involvement then please do. Which is sensible, that's the line I would be following too, if i was the ref and my AR had me involved the min to follow is a yellow. but heck he called us all cheats in front of the ref, i understand he's angry and frustrated but surely you have to draw the line or things will spiral out of control!
 
Mind you he finished the game with only that one card! I understand he's the type of referees who like to keep the game flowing, but I'm not sure about this one being the case for this game. I believe he should have raised his profile on a number of incidents to diffuse the situations and calm the players down.
 
What did you do after the game?
Did you talk to the ref, ask for more support in future and give your opinion on the lack of cards?
(I count 5 offences, 4 of which could easily be straight reds)

Of course what is really sad is that the player and others will do worse next week, thanks to last week's ref :(
 
richard ramjane said:
also, how comes he had to leave the FOP to put his boot back on?
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the foul was a funny clip to be honest with you, apparently when fouled somehow their laces got tangled up together. I have no idea how that happened but it did. Since he was injured as a result of the offence and asked for the coach/physio to come in, he has to step off the FOP and only allowed back in with the permission of the ref/AR/4th official. i gently and respectfully asked him to tie his laces but stay off the FOP as the law states he needs to be off after seeking treatment and also for his safety as the game carried on close to where he stood. That's when i got the F**** K***head comment!!
 
santa sangria said:
What did you do after the game?
Did you talk to the ref, ask for more support in future and give your opinion on the lack of cards?
(I count 5 offences, 4 of which could easily be straight reds)

Of course what is really sad is that the player and others will do worse next week, thanks to last week's ref :(
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I did, though i could have been a bit more insisting. His attitude was to let the game flow and he said these types of personalities you don't fuel their anger. That he had them before and he wasn't a problem before!

and i completely agree with you, it is the referee who will be there next week that i think about as well. A younger referee getting treated and spoken to like that, might not take it as well as I did!!
 
player uses the cheat word to an official red card no excuse, you should have called the referee to you told him what happened and you are expecting a red card
 
Maybe a phone call or email to your RDO explaining how let down you felt by the referee's unwillingness to support or protect you from verbal abuse?
 
Padfoot said:
Maybe a phone call or email to your RDO explaining how let down you felt by the referee's unwillingness to support or protect you from verbal abuse?
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Not sure that is going to help to be honest, as it will be Nalbi's story versus the referee's, and could also result in the former getting something of a reputation for complaining about colleagues. Although I'll caveat that by saying it very much depends what was discussed in the changing room after. If I was Nalbi I would have been asking long and hard questions of the referee, having been called a cheat twice I would have expected the player sent off (twice ..!) so I would be taking him to task for it, or at least asking why he didn't do anything. Depending on his reaction I may well report it, and would almost certainly be telling the appointing officer that I can't / won't work with him again. But if I hadn't said much or anything about it after the game there is no way I would take it any further as that just isn't fair or right.

Personally speaking I do have quite a high tolerance level as to what players can say to me, and unless they totally overstep the mark I will just have a go back or use a bit of humour to put them down. But this doesn't extend to comments to my assistants, and I have a very low tolerance level for comments make to them. On a few occasions I've had assistant ask me after the game why I cautioned players for dissent towards them when they hadn't asked me to, and my answer is always that I will protect them. Certainly if an assistant calls me over for a player giving him grief it is a minimum of a caution, and once I hear the cheat word he is walking even if the assistant only wanted a caution.
 
jofusref said:
player uses the cheat word to an official red card no excuse, you should have called the referee to you told him what happened and you are expecting a red card
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I did I was shouting on the top of my voice, twice he called me that and he just walks the line back in that free kick incident and takes the player to one side to give him a talk. I did say afterwards I find it amusing that he only got a caution and he is very lucky to only get that. But I could see from the exchange we had, I was going no where with this.

I even had a spectator, who seemed to be neutral tell me after that incident that I had a solid game and that I should be supported more by my referee. As much as I would have like to agree with him and I did, I simply thanked him and said I can't do much about it, he has the final say in judging what disciplinary actions should be taken.
 
jofusref said:
you should have called the referee to you told him what happened and you are expecting a red card
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I could be wrong here, but I have always been told that as an AR, you only tell the referee the facts, be concise and don't give an opinion; certainly not what you expect it to be ie the colour of the card you feel is right or whether it should be a PK, DFK or IDFK.
 
Nalbi said:
I could be wrong here, but I have always been told that as an AR, you only tell the referee the facts, be concise and don't give an opinion; certainly not what you expect it to be ie the colour of the card you feel is right or whether it should be a PK, DFK or IDFK.
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Yes and no. Sometimes you need to give an opinion - e.g. if you say red 7, bad tackle, what does the referee do with that? You need to be saying red 7, SFP red card, or red 7, reckless yellow card.

For language you need to give an opinion probably more than anything. As I've said earlier, I will always use a much lower tolerance level for words used towards my assistants than to me, but not all referees will. So if you generally want something dealt with you can say, for example "yellow 8, called me a cheat and and I am offended and insulted so send him off please". If the referee goes against this then you have genuine grounds for complaint, whereas if you just tell him the words he could claim that he thought you weren't offended or insulted.
 
if you was able to get the name of the player report it to the county FA and also report the fellow referee for not doing his job
 
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