Forest v Newcastle

[Goldfish]

The decision hinges on the first Forest defender to play the ball,
The 2nd Forest play can easily be justified as interfering by the player in an offside position yet that is not the key decision,
Now was the first clearance deliberate or not. The IFAB advice and video examples would suggest that in my opinion it was deliberate
https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
Video 3 and 6 would suggest that the Forest clearance could easily fit those examples.
I think it is just too subjective as one refs deliberate is another's not deliberate.
I would go as far as to say that to sort it much like the goal scored with the hand principle is that all opponents touches other than a save or off the frame of the goal is a reset.

 

[socal lurker]

I would go as far as to say that to sort it much like the goal scored with the hand principle is that all opponents touches other than a save or off the frame of the goal is a reset.

It was closer to that before the recent tweaks--and many thought it was unfair to defenders that a minor touch freed an OS attacker.

I think it is really, really hard to draw a good line on this that creates a standard that applies well in all cases. And we know that IFAB is far from expert in drafting clear standards that work out the way they hoped.

 

[JamesL]

The decision hinges on the first Forest defender to play the ball,
The 2nd Forest play can easily be justified as interfering by the player in an offside position yet that is not the key decision,
Now was the first clearance deliberate or not. The IFAB advice and video examples would suggest that in my opinion it was deliberate
https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/
Video 3 and 6 would suggest that the Forest clearance could easily fit those examples.
I think it is just too subjective as one refs deliberate is another's not deliberate.
I would go as far as to say that to sort it much like the goal scored with the hand principle is that all opponents touches other than a save or off the frame of the goal is a reset.

I could create a very comprehensive argument as to why video 3 is not even close to this...

 

[mctones]

If it had been given I think there would be plenty arguments for why the goal stood. I can certainly see there is enough of a movement towards the ball to try and put it out for a corner imho, but comes off his heel and skews back to Newcastle player. That would count as deliberate according to the rules.

This one an occasion where either call could be interpreted, so perhaps another tweak to the rules?

 

[Russell Jones]

If it had been given I think there would be plenty arguments for why the goal stood. I can certainly see there is enough of a movement towards the ball to try and put it out for a corner imho, but comes off his heel and skews back to Newcastle player. That would count as deliberate according to the rules.

This one an occasion where either call could be interpreted, so perhaps another tweak to the rules?

The important thing to remember is that tweaks to the laws will NOT solve these issues and may well make things worse. Wherever the 'line' is drawn between "Deliberate" and "Deflection" there will still be borderline, subjective cases that can (and will) be argued either way. Exactly as with handball (Natural vs Unnatural), Careless v Reckless, Reckless v Excessive Force etc etc etc. We can give referees considerations to think about, show them video clips to bring things to life and coach towards consistency. However we will never do away with these debates unless we wish things to be incredibly blunt and simplistic which would then bring its own issues (eg every contact between arm and ball is handball, Offside Position automatically equals an Offside Offence etc)

As the Laws are currently written, this offside decision is absolutely correct (whether it's a clear and obvious error requiring VAR intervention is another debate!). The only reason it's confused people is because of an unusual combination of two touches of the ball by defenders. But, put simply, based on the new considerations, the first touch is deemed a Deflection (thus keeping alive the possibility of an Offside offence) and the second touch occurs simultaneously with the attacker challenging for the ball. Simples