A&H

Hamilton V Celtic -Handball not Given

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Big Cat said:
The Law is daft. It's based on deliberate, but the clarifications don't really reflect intent
@RustyRef , I also give few HB decisions based on the deliberate criteria. However, in this case the motion of the arm is mighty dubious, so I'm giving it without doubt on that basis
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Dubious? So there is some doubt in your mind.....is there not?
 
Ganajin said:
Actually it does not. It would end up with constant blasting of balls into the PA in hopes of the merest accidental flick off a defender's arm. The phrase deliberate has hung around the Laws for a very long time for a good reason. What we have is not perfect but a blanket "hits an arm it's a handball offence" would lead to chaos.
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Just no.....
 
QuaverRef said:
I’ve just read through this entire thread and tried to see it both ways but I find it incredible that there’s even a debate for this not to be handball
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Esp when the player himself has confirmed he did it, folk are still saying no, they wont give it. Bizarre. How more deliberate can it be if the player says yes I did it.
 
I am completely in the handball camp and do agree that it was likely the CR was screened. That being said, the player has slid, push himself up off the ground and lunges into the path of the attacker attempting to cross the ball. He has made a deliberate action lunging into the path of the ball. He has additionally made himself bigger extending his arm in the effort. Handball all day long for me. I get (but completely disagree with) the "he was getting up" view and here is why. getting up from the ground would involve the hand on the ground and remaining on the ground. A normal effort would involve getting his feet under him whilst pushing off of the ground. It does not appear to be the case here. This is not a normal effort to rise nor do I believe it is an actual effort to rise. He has his left foot on the ground and his arm initially. There is no effort to get his right foot under him and actually twists his body and extends the leg/foot backward. Someone attempting to legitimately rise from the ground would be bringing the right leg FORWARD rather extending it BACKWARD. Nor does his plant foot (left) slip. This is a deliberate action and gamesmanship. I have been slide tackling people for over 40 years and played a fair bit of GK as well. I have NEVER gotten up off the ground in this manner. I have dove like this often. It is the total body mechanics for me. This is deliberate and a PK all day long for me.
 
Hoosier Ref said:
I am completely in the handball camp and do agree that it was likely the CR was screened. That being said, the player has slid, push himself up off the ground and lunges into the path of the attacker attempting to cross the ball. He has made a deliberate action lunging into the path of the ball. He has additionally made himself bigger extending his arm in the effort. Handball all day long for me. I get (but completely disagree with) the "he was getting up" view and here is why. getting up from the ground would involve the hand on the ground and remaining on the ground. A normal effort would involve getting his feet under him whilst pushing off of the ground. It does not appear to be the case here. This is not a normal effort to rise nor do I believe it is an actual effort to rise. He has his left foot on the ground and his arm initially. There is no effort to get his right foot under him and actually twists his body and extends the leg/foot backward. Someone attempting to legitimately rise from the ground would be bringing the right leg FORWARD rather extending it BACKWARD. Nor does his plant foot (left) slip. This is a deliberate action and gamesmanship. I have been slide tackling people for over 40 years and played a fair bit of GK as well. I have NEVER gotten up off the ground in this manner. I have dove like this often. It is the total body mechanics for me. This is deliberate and a PK all day long for me.
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I think you're right, but I also think that it's near impossible for the ref to call in real time - both because of his position and also because we're talking about a fairly subtle adjustment to the manner in which he is "pushing himself up".
 
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