Hammers Pool

[one]

^^^^ and with the AR looking at ball in and out of play, good team work would mean the referee takes the next passage in play !!!! ^^^^

And ball in and out of play is surely the most important issue in a game full stop? if the balls out, all bets are off, plus ball in and out of play is factual, its either, in, or, its out !!

Offside is, in the interpretation of the referee/////AR....... so, one is an opinion and one is factual. making, the factual one more important !!!

The AR doesn't determine the offside offence, he determine player in offside position which is also factual (VAR protocol rings a bell?) contrary to your statement. There reason I prioritise offside over ball in/out over touchline is that the chances of a goal, as the most important event in a game, from an undetected offside (generally only one defender to beat) is much higher than when a ball goes over the touchline undetected.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

The AR doesn't determine the offside offence, he determine player in offside position which is also factual (VAR protocol rings a bell?) contrary to your statement. There reason I prioritise offside over ball in/out over touchline is that the chances of a goal, as the most important event in a game, from an undetected offside (generally only one defender to beat) is much higher than when a ball goes over the touchline undetected.

I knew when typed it someone would be smart and correct it
Yes offside is factual but the interpretation of whether or not a player should be penalised for being in an offside position, is of course down to the individual
I guess you knew that but in a (constant) attempt to pour scourn on my posts, you went with it anyway

Ball in, ball out, fact
Player deserves to be penalised for being in an offside position, interpretation

 

[socal lurker]

Am near alone in preaching we should, at least mentally, referee without ARs, the same as we do with them. There will be one time a season where as ref, you really do know best. This was Mr Friends one. Shirked responsibilty and pushed it all onto the AR as an easy, if accepted , get out card.

I think you are near alone because it is bad advice. As referees there are many things that we want to be able to see, and we are always prioritizing. If you use the same priorities on how you think with qualified ARs as you do without ARs, then you are neglecting things that you should be able to focus on because you have the assistance of the ARs. That doesn't mean you have no responsibility for the things the AR helps with, but you should be less focused on those things than you would without ARs. And among the things you should be less focused on is offside position. (The R is much more able to help on actual involvement.) Especially at the professional level, it is completely reasonable for the R to accept that the AR will always have the best view of offside position and to spend his attention on other things. This is the extremely rare play that the R might have been able to help out on the position aspect of OS.

For those of us with less qualified ARs, we have to, IMO, assess the skill set of our ARs and use that to select our positioning and where we focus attention. I often have ARs with significantly different skill sets--that means I'm positioning different at one end and focusing differently at that end as well to be more focused on the calls the other AR is better able to help me with.

The AR doesn't determine the offside offence, he determine player in offside position which is also factual (VAR protocol rings a bell?) contrary to your statement. There reason I prioritise offside over ball in/out over touchline is that the chances of a goal, as the most important event in a game, from an undetected offside (generally only one defender to beat) is much higher than when a ball goes over the touchline undetected.

While I agree with the second half of your post, I really don't understand your first statement. The AR does have to determine if there was an offside offense committed--flag shouldn't go up until the player in OSP becomes actively involved, which is (in some cases) a judgment. I think I'm missing what you are trying to say.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I think you are near alone because it is bad advice. As referees there are many things that we want to be able to see, and we are always prioritizing. If you use the same priorities on how you think with qualified ARs as you do without ARs, then you are neglecting things that you should be able to focus on because you have the assistance of the ARs. That doesn't mean you have no responsibility for the things the AR helps with, but you should be less focused on those things than you would without ARs. And among the things you should be less focused on is offside position. (The R is much more able to help on actual involvement.) Especially at the professional level, it is completely reasonable for the R to accept that the AR will always have the best view of offside position and to spend his attention on other things. This is the extremely rare play that the R might have been able to help out on the position aspect of OS.

For those of us with less qualified ARs, we have to, IMO, assess the skill set of our ARs and use that to select our positioning and where we focus attention. I often have ARs with significantly different skill sets--that means I'm positioning different at one end and focusing differently at that end as well to be more focused on the calls the other AR is better able to help me with.



While I agree with the second half of your post, I really don't understand your first statement. The AR does have to determine if there was an offside offense committed--flag shouldn't go up until the player in OSP becomes actively involved, which is (in some cases) a judgment. I think I'm missing what you are trying to say.

you are welcome to deem my advice as a lot of things, but, bad, is insulting sorry. What works for some, might not work for all. Am not saying we as ref become the AR and are ready to call every offside etc. But, we need to be aware of what's going on and, the well used phrase, no surprises, comes into play.
Many a time the ref, at the very very, highest level has been shafted by an AR, who, for whatever reason, does not flag yet there is the ref, aware its offside, knowing its offside, but hey, how can it be offside as Mr ran the UEFA line for 10 years has not flagged.
You might wish to take issue with my, or anybody else's advice. You might wish to disagree with it. All good
Please don't state my advice here is bad.
Am of a school of thought, along with ELITE FIFA refs I have worked with, that, the referee is as fully aware of offside situations as possible where and when possible. Bear that in mind when choosing your words please.
Very few folk will offer advice that an entire forum can bow too or become moist over. But, if just one person gets a KMI correct because they were more aware of their environment then prev would have, job done. We all look to improve. We all find that improvement via differing methods.

 

[Big Cat]

Going back to the RA meeting with AT, it was inferred that any PL ref doing something cavalier (not in keeping with normal practice of PL colleagues) would quickly find themselves in the job centre