A&H

Have I messed up

I

Isaac

Isaac
Level 7 Referee
So red and blue player goes up for header. Red player falls over and blue lands on his leg. I'm certain there was no foul so told everyone to keep going.

Then another red player sprints 30 yards and starts screaming in my face so I blow my whistle to take action.

He hasn't sworn at me but fully screamed at me from a foot away for roughly 20/30 seconds.

I gave a red card because I felt it was OFINABUS. but on the way home I was thinking and nothing specificaly offended me but I fealt it would count as abusive.

Was I right to send him off or could I have just booked him

Sorry for lengthy post but I wanted to describe it as best as I could
 
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HertsFinest said:
You're perfectly correct in sending him off if you found it abusive
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To an extent yes. A lot of officials use the assumed opinion element of OFFINABUS to downgrade it to dissent. I've heard officials get called a c**t and say that they didn't find it offensive and so cautioned for dissent. Whether or not you find something offensive, there are certain things that, when said, fall into OFFINABUS whether you find it offensive or not.
 
HertsFinest said:
You're perfectly correct in sending him off if you found it abusive
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Having 2 older brothers it takes a lot for me to feel abused. I fealt scared more than anything being a small 17 year old tbh. I know some people say if you feel threatened call it off but I didn't feel it was serious enough for that
 
Isaac said:
Basically how have I not given the "foul" for somebody falling on his team mate but more aggressive than that
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To me, by word, it sounds more like dissent. However, there is the action element to this that may mean you found it abusive. If it was something he said and you wasn't sure whether it was dissent or OFFINABUS then that would be clear cut, but given the fact there's a manorism involved that you weren't happy with it's difficult to comment.

I wouldn't overly worry about it as it is something only you can judge.
 
YorkshireReferee said:
To me, by word, it sounds more like dissent. However, there is the action element to this that may mean you found it abusive. If it was something he said and you wasn't sure whether it was dissent or OFFINABUS then that would be clear cut, but given the fact there's a manorism involved that you weren't happy with it's difficult to comment.

I wouldn't overly worry about it as it is something only you can judge.
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It was more for the fact he has ran a fair way and then got right in my face then what he actually said. That made me see it as more than just dissent
 
Isaac said:
It was more for the fact he has ran a fair way and then got right in my face then what he actually said. That made me see it as more than just dissent
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To me it sounds like it hit dissent levels quite fast. A quick caution is discouraged my a lot of assessors at our level, however in a situation like this it's a brilliant tool that I've seen used very effectively. The player charges up to you and the second begins his dissent you draw a quick caution and you immediately warn him that if he continued a second one will come. I was working with a Level 4 who did this and the offending player stopped in his tracks in shock.

There are situations where you can calm the player down and then caution for dissent, but then sometimes a quick caution can be the only thing that will end the barrage of dissent.
 
You will need to be very thorough in writing the misconduct report to get the charge to stick.

From what you have described it sounds like dissent, nothing more.

You will need to report exactly what was said, and make it clear that you felt scared at the conduct of the player.

If, on reflection, you feel you over reacted and it should have only been a caution, speak to your RDO, and/or discipline manager BEFORE submitting your report.
Be honest with them, and with yourself.

The player may claim wrongful dismissal and you could be asked if you might have made a mistake.
 
The action of running the length of the pitch is something that's common with deciding something is dissent

It's then down to what they say when they reach you.

Remember it can also be the delivery. If you found the delivery threatening then you could argue offinabus was the correct decision.

My general rule is

Dissent:
  • Shouting aggressively
  • Sarcasm
  • Clapping
  • Throwing ball down
  • Are you blind etc.
Offinabus:
  • Directed
  • Name calling
  • Excessively Aggressive
  • Any combination of the two above I will always dismiss.
  • It goes without saying but C U next Tuesday and Cheat will also be an immediate red
 
HertsFinest said:
The action of running the length of the pitch is something that's common with deciding something is dissent

It's then down to what they say when they reach you.

Remember it can also be the delivery. If you found the delivery threatening then you could argue offinabus was the correct decision.

My general rule is

Dissent:
  • Shouting aggressively
  • Sarcasm
  • Clapping
  • Throwing ball down
  • Are you blind etc.
Offinabus:
  • Directed
  • Name calling
  • Excessively Aggressive
  • Any combination of the two above I will always dismiss.
  • It goes without saying but C U next Tuesday and Cheat will also be an immediate red
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Once I had given the red he said c**t but obviously I had already made my decision. I have put that in the report aswell
 
YorkshireReferee said:
To me it sounds like it hit dissent levels quite fast. A quick caution is discouraged my a lot of assessors at our level, however in a situation like this it's a brilliant tool that I've seen used very effectively. The player charges up to you and the second begins his dissent you draw a quick caution and you immediately warn him that if he continued a second one will come. I was working with a Level 4 who did this and the offending player stopped in his tracks in shock.

There are situations where you can calm the player down and then caution for dissent, but then sometimes a quick caution can be the only thing that will end the barrage of dissent.
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This does sound like a useful tactic. However how would I go about getting his details. Once showing the yellow would I then get his name. Or ask his manager for it at full time? :)
 
Isaac said:
This does sound like a useful tactic. However how would I go about getting his details. Once showing the yellow would I then get his name. Or ask his manager for it at full time? :)
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This is quite league dependent, which is probably why assessors want a ceremonial caution/dismissal at our level.

On my league we have team sheets, as most should, but they are also strict to the fact that team sheet numbers must match that of the players. You can either write down the full match squad on your matchpad pre-match or just take his number and use the teamsheet to verify it post-match IF they match the team numbers.

If you're unable to do that due to the logistics of your league, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to get his name. Inform him you won't be restarting until he gives you his name and if he refuses then tell his captain you won't be restarting until you have his name and ask the captain for his name.
 
YorkshireReferee said:
This is quite league dependent, which is probably why assessors want a ceremonial caution/dismissal at our level.
Our league doesn't require team sheets so the second part of that is useful. Thanks a lot :D
On my league we have team sheets, as most should, but they are also strict to the fact that team sheet numbers must match that of the players. You can either write down the full match squad on your matchpad pre-match or just take his number and use the teamsheet to verify it post-match IF they match the team numbers.

If you're unable to do that due to the logistics of your league, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to get his name. Inform him you won't be restarting until he gives you his name and if he refuses then tell his captain you won't be restarting until you have his name and ask the captain for his name.
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YorkshireReferee said:
This is quite league dependent, which is probably why assessors want a ceremonial caution/dismissal at our level.

On my league we have team sheets, as most should, but they are also strict to the fact that team sheet numbers must match that of the players. You can either write down the full match squad on your matchpad pre-match or just take his number and use the teamsheet to verify it post-match IF they match the team numbers.

If you're unable to do that due to the logistics of your league, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to get his name. Inform him you won't be restarting until he gives you his name and if he refuses then tell his captain you won't be restarting until you have his name and ask the captain for his name.
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Or alternatively stick to the correct caution procedure and avoid looking stupid after showing the card, then having to abandon because you didn't get his name!
 
Padfoot said:
Or alternatively stick to the correct caution procedure and avoid looking stupid after showing the card, then having to abandon because you didn't get his name!
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The player knows you're going to issue a card the second you ask his name, not when you show the card. You're not asking for his name to add him on Facebook. It's an effective technique, hence why a lot of assessors at supply league and above are perfectly happy for officials to use it.
 
YorkshireReferee said:
The player knows you're going to issue a card the second you ask his name, not when you show the card. You're not asking for his name to add him on Facebook. It's an effective technique, hence why a lot of assessors at supply league and above are perfectly happy for officials to use it.
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No they are not. If you fail to follow the correct procedure and it causes you a problem, then expect it to be reflected in your comments and your mark at Supply and Contrib.
 
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