A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Are we not allowed to have a debate Ross, I thought that is what the forum was for to discuss and debate and have opinions?
Horrible Little B*stards
- Thread starter RegalRef
- Start date
Cheshire Ref
RefChat Addict
Ok, this is my last reply to anything you ever post. There is debating and then there is personal jibes, like several that you aimed at me in another thread and like your opening sentence does in this post.
My point is this, i know of referee's that have been suspended for social media posts. Now i cannot be certain but i dont think they were sat in their bedroom in full kit when they made them. I know a referee that was suspended by The FA for fighting, he was taken to court and faced a criminal charge and guess what the FA dont actually like that.
Your suggestion that once you have got changed and left the changing room you can do what you want is wrong.
Over and out!
In case any new referees read this thread in future, I should point out that this is absolutely incorrect.
You are considered to be a referee representing your county until you have left the ground and even beyond - and there are standard of behavior associated with that. This includes being non-confrontational wherever possible: if you were to say something between your dressing room and your car with the aim of starting a fight, you would certainly have your local FA to answer to at least.
Additionally, if you were to receive post-match threats via phone, text or social media that relate to a match you have refereed, you will have been threatened in your capacity as a referee and should report the threats accordingly - even if you do also escalate those threats to the police as well.
Local case. Referee dismissed player. Player threatened referee. Two weeks later, player sees referee at another game, assaults referee, gets 5 year ban.
Another case, referee dismisses player. Player sees referee in supermarket two weeks later, verbally abuses referee. Referee reports incident, player receives 5 week ban (old case).
You're always on duty
Not wishing to stand up for the freethinking person but I think his sense of humour is lost in translation. He comes from my homeland and we have a slightly offbeat sense of humour and use such expressions in jest. Alternatively, he could be a nasty piece of work lol
#stickingupfornornironpeopleeverywhere
#stickingupfornornironpeopleeverywhere
Paul March
Well-Known Member
I am always a referee, when I am walking through my local town on a Saturday morning I am often greeted with 'morning ref'. And no I don't wander around in full kit
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Posting on social media is different especially in relation to teams you have or may referee, same way child protection issues would be viewed, if you go onto social media and talk about your family, friends politics this isn't in relation to refereeing if you say I refereed a team on Saturday and they were awful, well there are codes of conduct. I do find it interesting that the opening poster and DB make reference to violence towards the player yet aren't lambasted but when I say belittle him verbally I am? Strange world? GraemeS states that you are covered as a referee until you leave the ground. Maybe things are different on the mainland as with the way you referee and communicate with players and obviously view violence as a lesser offence than verbal abuse, as I said strange world?
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Only in Norn Ireland Brian! GAWA
Define "covered as a referee"? I mean that you are expected to act as a referee until you leave the ground - and picking a fight in the car park, as you seemed to suggest in the post I originally quoted, is not conduct that any county FA would expect from a referee representing them.
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
You say "You are considered to be a referee representing your county until you have left the ground and even beyond" thereby you are covered by them for what? If a player punches you in the carpark you report him to the FA and they deal with it? Not over here it's a police matter and well within your rights to protect yourself! As for suggesting I said to pick a fight? As stated the opening poster and DB suggested violence as an option I suggested verbal rebuke. However, GraemeS you have come on to lambast me because I dared to have a difference of opinion with you on another thread! Man up ffs Db suggests throwing a cheeky right hook why aren't you criticising him or the opening poster for suggesting he wouldn't last ten seconds? Is that ok, would the county FA consider that to be appropriate behaviour or is that you just want to argue with me? Still looking for popularity..sending you a big hug there, there son it will be ok the players will like you when you explain yourself to them diddums!
Why do you keep bringing this notion of "covered" into it? That's not something I've ever mentioned. I'm talking about the time during which you have responsibilities as a FA-sanctioned referee. And I've come onto this thread and disagreed with you because you've made a statement early on that I believe to be 100% wrong and very dangerous if a new referee were to read and act on. I will quote it again for you to make it clear:
I do not think "saying what you feel is right" is appropriate and I dread to think what you are counting under "do what you feel is right". If you are approached at that point (and once again, I'm still and have only ever been talking about someone approaching you in a confrontational/threatening manner), you are still very much a referee and are absolutely expected to try and not make things worse. You are expected to be diplomatic, you are expected to try and de-escalate the situation. Those are your responsibilities as a referee.
And none of this invalidates the fact that if the player still chooses to take a swing at you, you're both entitled to defend yourself as appropriate and you're still entitled to report it to the police (as well as the county FA) if you feel that's appropriate. Same as if a player took a swing at you on the pitch.
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
I use the word covered as in the FA will back you up in the event of an incident, here that cover stops when you reach the changing room after your match. if you then go to a shopping centre and some swings for you cos you sent him off half an hour ago the FA don't want involved it is a police matter. I would also say I am correct you are within your rights to say or do what you feel is right? You can stand up to the challenge, you can defend yourself or you can get into your car and drive away? A scumbag comes at me after a match giving it the big I am, depending on how I am feeling will depend on how I react nothing to do if I am a referee or not, I am a civilian at that stage, simple! Listen obviously there are different rules for your county referees than apply to here. I explained the position from here and you explained the position from your county FAs perspective, so what is the big deal? However, what you didn't explain is why you are just commenting on my post and not the others who actually did refer to violence? Why haven't you taken exception to DBs sneaky right hook do you condone that and think its appropriate for new referees to read it? Think you need to let the personality aspect go here or take offence with all comments!
To clear up the fact you are trying to make this personal - DB's first comment was clearly a joke and he's later made a more serious post with real advice. You initial dangerously incorrect post appeared to be serious and you've since backed up that opinion and not retracted the incorrect statement.
I also have to say that I think the rest of this post is incorrect. If you're threatened or attacked because you're a referee - be that on the pitch, in the car park, in a shopping centre two days later or via social media - then your county FA will want to know about it and should want to hand out a ban from football for the attacker. Your choice if you want to include the police or not, and if so, which of those you want to go to first, is entirely down to you, but you should be informing your county regardless. I don't necessarily think your responsibility stretches that far, but this concept of "cover" that you seem obsessed with should relate to anything that happens because you're a referee.
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
I wasn't making it personal you came on and criticised me whilst ignoring the other statements oh and was the opening posters he wouldn't last 10 seconds also a joke cos that very much sounds like a threat as well? Oh and it's ok if you say it as a joke because the person who reads it would take it as one..sorry..in that case my post was meant as a joke too! All better now? Must mention that at the next referee's association meeting as long as we jokingly threaten or use homophobic or racist language its ok! Maybe when you are explaining your decisions to players you could ask did they mean to call you a fing twxt or was it a joke cos I wont send you off if it was meant as a joke? Post something about one of the local teams on Facebook or twitter and then caveat it as a joke see how the County FA like it!
Tell you what put the scenario to your county official of being in a shopping centre and a person who you had sent of last week smacks you one and what will they do about it! let me know the answer. Because over here it is NOTHING, none football related issue let the police deal with it! As for being dangerously incorrect...I think you will find my response is most definitely accurate in relation to Norn Iron or maybe they were just joking!
mikedn
Referee/Mentor
I can just picture the headlines in your local newspaper " local referee arrested for assault"...... The media would rip you to pieces, of course you are representing your FA 24/7... Police are held in the same limelight as well.... If you want to go back to being a caveman hang up your ref kit and register with your local Sunday team
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Funny I ain't paid 24/7 and would say that the headlines wouldn't read that tbh. Anytime and the many times I have been in the paper when it's in relation to football absolutely it is about me being a referee other times with work etc it has nothing to do with a referee. Do your local FAs pay you 24/7 are you all on contracts like Clats and Atkinson. Hope none of you are drinking or doing anything naughty or shouldn't be doing!
You're trying to ignore the context again.
If a random stranger comes up and punches me, or I get in a fight with strangers in the pub, of course I wouldn't expect it to have anything to do with the fact I'm a referee. If someone I recognise as someone I've previously sent off comes up and has a go at me (and especially if he refers to me as "Ref!" or says something like "You sent me off last week!") then I think it's totally appropriate for the local FA to impose football-related sanctions too. If you don't feel like your FA would support you in this, you might want to have a word with your local Welfare Officer or RDO and ask why you wouldn't be suitably supported.
A Freethinker
RefChat Addict
Eh... ok tell you what ask your local FA representative and see what he says then come back to me and tell me what he says!