A&H

Ignored as assistant

L

LHref

New Member
Recently, I took part in a game as an assistant referee, specifically as a club assistant for my brother's team. Before the match I informed the referee that I was a qualified referee and had refereed a lot of matches etc. He told me not to give fouls etc. but only offsides, in and out of play etc. (which I understood). As the game proceeded the referee proceeded to ignore multiple offside calls that I made. He did not even acknowledge the flag, he just looked at me and carried on with no signal whatsoever. His positioning was abysmal as well, he was generally a long way behind play with absolutely no hope of being able to know whether the offside call was correct (or not). Anyway, I raised my flag four times to signal offside, three of which were not even close (they were five-six yards offside each time with the player clearly interfering given that they touched the ball). One, very obvious offside, led to a goal (which was thankfully irrelevant to the result of the game). Following the match I asked the referee on his decisions and he said that he thought I was "blatantly wrong on two calls" and he "hadn't seen the other two". I am not here to criticise the referee but am wondering two things. Firstly, when you are in the middle do you ignore club assistants (be them qualified or not) on a regular basis, and when you do are you always in a good position to see it? And secondly, how would you deal with the situation if you were in my position? Would you put your flag down as soon as the ref saw you? Or would you stand firm and just keep the flag up until acknowledgement (that frankly wasn't likely to be forthcoming)? The situation was humiliating to me- in front of people I knew- and I urge anyone who disagrees with an assistant (club or neutral) to at least acknowledge their call and tell them to put the flag down. Thanks for any help you can offer.
 
The Referee Store
He should have at least acknowledged the flag, whether he agrees with you or not. Poor practise by him, keep your flag up until there's an acknowledgement or you don't feel keeping your flag up is credible to the game ie another phase of play.
As soon as he said you were "blatantly wrong on two calls" I would have walked away from him and not engaged in any more dialogue. Arrogant man!
Work with your club assistants as much as you can. Obviously there are occasions where you won't be able to, but on the day, those CA are an extension of your armoury for that game. Utilise them as much as you can, if they're bad then dig deeper and work that little bit harder, you'll be better for it!
 
My standard briefing for CAR's includes the line that if I have a different opinion of the offside, I'll acknowledge the flag but to then lower it and carry on with play. To have acknowledged after the game that he saw two of them, but to have just ignored you is pretty poor.

On another note, I personally wouldn't be telling the ref that I was also a qualified ref. I've had people say that to me a fair few times, and had them enthusiastically agree when I've asked them "What class referee are you, G?", so always take it with a pinch of salt. When I'm not appointed as a NAR, for that game I am a CAR, and will do as instructed. So no fouls means no fouls, even if its right in front of me and the ref hasn't seen it. However, the league I referee on is also the league my son plays in, and most of the refs know each other. I've also been CAR either directly before or after a match where I've done the middle, in which case being in my black kit is a bit of a giveaway.
 
Sadly, qualified or not, you were a club assistant referee not a neutral on the day. He didnt know you presumably, no reason to believe you were anything but *another* cheating club lino :) you will see many posts on here about players/spectators/managers/cars claiming to be qualified referees, usually just before they tell you how wrong you are in a decision which didn't favour their team. Most of us tend to let it go in one ear and out the other when you hear the words I'm a qualified ref. :rolleyes: Sometimes of course the person is telling the truth... Gets lost in the noise of the others.

Honest Club Lino - second hardest job in all of football.

While his lack of acknowledgement leaves a lot to be desired, he is the appointed referee on the day. If you are going to be club lino, sadly you will need to expect this from some. Suck it up, move on.

:)
 
I've had a CAR challenge me at half time about an offside i gave(goal scored but didn't count) and he said "I'm a qualified ref too Level 12, and that was a good goal" I asked when he qualified and he said "oh, last week, but i've been a linesman for years"
 
The brief to CAR before the game is generally as follows:
" I can't take fouls from you, so I need ball in/out and offsides only. If you are in a credible position up with play I will take normally your flag unless you're wrong in law or just plain wrong. Keep the flag up and wait for my signal. If I don't want your flag I will acknowledge you and ask you to put it down. Please don't get upset as I may not always agree."

I do this in front of the captains and tell them to make sure they play to the whistle. Job done.

I never ignore the Lino, even if it's to tell him to carry on. In your situation, I'd play pro ref here and stay still with the flag raised until he acknowledged me. Then I'd tell him ( politely) what he did wrong after the game.
 
Personally @Monotone Whistle if that is really what you say theres 4 pretty negative comments in that short spiel. I often find its easier to make CAR's feel important and part of your team. I wouldnt want my first impression to the CAR that this is all about me and what I want. As much as we dislike CAR's at times, they are doing us a favour and helping in their own way. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and be positive with them, as kindly as possible. But I am aware we are all different in our approaches.
 
No worries Dave, all about opinions. I've had so much crap over the years from CARs that I have to spell out what they can and can't do. I think in the OPs case it would have helped if the ref had done that for him, negative or not.
 
Thanks for your replies everyone. I certainly cannot disagree with you SM it is definitely the second hardest job in football (sometimes at least). I think the reason I inform the referee that I am qualified is that otherwise he will simply believe that I am the typical club assistant with, more often than not, no skill or knowledge as to the LOTG and how they should be applied, there is at least a chance he will believe me and maybe this will provide me with a slight bit more of credibility for my honest decisions . I am of the view however that if a referee is to ignore a club assistant he must be practically certain that the assistant is erroneous, and for this his position must be credible. There has never been an occasion where a CAR has flagged and I have ignored him (or told him he was incorrect) when I could not see the decision for myself, is that the same for everyone else or do people tell CARs they are wrong because they think they might be, even if you aren't sure?
 
If I am overruling you need to have a good idea that the car is wrong, not necessarily due to cheating though! CARs can often be older, less fit individuals who struggle to keep up with the game and sometimes make bad decisions based on that. sometimes you get cheats mind. Locally I am quite lucky as a lot of the CARs are honest and do the line every week so you come to know them and know what they are about. Makes the job easier.

*for those interested, the hardest job in football is the honest club referee, pressed into service when there is no allocated neutral ref. Also the worst job in football.
 
I rarely find CAR's are as awful as some people on here make out, and most of the time bad calls come from genuine error (something we all do) rather than cheating. Yeah some CAR's will be trying to gain their team an advantage. Its rare for offside I'll tell them to put it down, unless its incorrect in law, then I'll try and make sure I'm near them when the ball next goes out of play so I can give them a quick word as to why I did it. Also the next few decisions for throws and corners etc I'll make sure, no matter how obvious they are I'm making really good eye contact with them and letting them flag first and making it look as though I'm going with them, then giving them a thumbs up. Its a good way of keeping them onside with me and making it look like I'm really taking their lead on things!
 
Monotone Whistle said:
The brief to CAR before the game is generally as follows:
" I can't take fouls from you, so I need ball in/out and offsides only. If you are in a credible position up with play I will take normally your flag unless you're wrong in law or just plain wrong. Keep the flag up and wait for my signal. If I don't want your flag I will acknowledge you and ask you to put it down. Please don't get upset as I may not always agree."

I do this in front of the captains and tell them to make sure they play to the whistle. Job done.

I never ignore the Lino, even if it's to tell him to carry on. In your situation, I'd play pro ref here and stay still with the flag raised until he acknowledged me. Then I'd tell him ( politely) what he did wrong after the game.
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I always tell CAR's to try and hold the flag down until the offside player actually touches the ball also.
 
I always ask CARS to keep flag raised and give me a little shout if I don't see them - I assure them this will be very unlikely of course!

However.....don't forget that CARS might well flag for an "offside" that you are not even considering, and therefore you won't look across & see them.

As for "I'm a qualified referee" - usually possible to tell in first few minutes if they are or not I think.
 
"Hello, *shaking hands* thank's for being there it's very important, few things I wanna tell you :
- You're in charge of throw ins in your part of the field, I am in my part, I'm gonna look at you if a ball is close to go out since you have the best view.
- You're also in charge of offsides, all I ask you is to always be as close as possible to the last defender, that way nobody is going to argue your decisions, and to wait the last moment to raise your flag, in the eventuality when an other player, not in an offside position, comes and takes the ball. Take your time, I prefer a late flag rather than an early one.
- I'm going to take all responsibilities about fouls.
- In any occasion, if you raised your flag, keep it up until I blow the whistle or I clearly acknowledge it and eventually says to play on, if you're not sure about which team has the ball, no problem, only raise your flag to tell me that the ball got out and I'll take the decision.
- Finally, remember that we are all three here to serve the game and that our job is to have as little influence as possible about the final score"
 
Yacinho said:
"Hello, *shaking hands* thank's for being there it's very important, few things I wanna tell you :
- You're in charge of throw ins in your part of the field, I am in my part, I'm gonna look at you if a ball is close to go out since you have the best view.
- You're also in charge of offsides, all I ask you is to always be as close as possible to the last defender, that way nobody is going to argue your decisions, and to wait the last moment to raise your flag, in the eventuality when an other player, not in an offside position, comes and takes the ball. Take your time, I prefer a late flag rather than an early one.
- I'm going to take all responsibilities about fouls.
- In any occasion, if you raised your flag, keep it up until I blow the whistle or I clearly acknowledge it and eventually says to play on, if you're not sure about which team has the ball, no problem, only raise your flag to tell me that the ball got out and I'll take the decision.
- Finally, remember that we are all three here to serve the game and that our job is to have as little influence as possible about the final score"
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Like that, I would give you a 'like' if I knew how to.
 
Yacinho said:
"Hello, *shaking hands* thank's for being there it's very important, few things I wanna tell you :
- You're in charge of throw ins in your part of the field, I am in my part, I'm gonna look at you if a ball is close to go out since you have the best view.
- You're also in charge of offsides, all I ask you is to always be as close as possible to the last defender, that way nobody is going to argue your decisions, and to wait the last moment to raise your flag, in the eventuality when an other player, not in an offside position, comes and takes the ball. Take your time, I prefer a late flag rather than an early one.
- I'm going to take all responsibilities about fouls.
- In any occasion, if you raised your flag, keep it up until I blow the whistle or I clearly acknowledge it and eventually says to play on, if you're not sure about which team has the ball, no problem, only raise your flag to tell me that the ball got out and I'll take the decision.
- Finally, remember that we are all three here to serve the game and that our job is to have as little influence as possible about the final score"
Click to expand...
This apart from offsides and I hope everyone knows my thoughts on this by now (untrained person and game changing decisions etc.). Also add in that if I disagree with a decision and overrule it's because I had a different angle.

Always thank your CARs at the end of the game.
 
Personally, when I have club assistants, qualified or not, , I have them only do ins and outs. Everything else is with me and this is made clear to the teams from the start.
 
Find out there names.
Nice and simple in and out of play, and offside to the guy receiving the ball please.
If I over rule you I'll explain why. ( normally because they're flagging way to early or the completely wrong person)
Big thank you's during the game when they flag again using there name.

And again thank you at the end.
Same if they're qualified or not, it's amazing how many qualified refs I've had this season, never heard of any of them!

Simples!
 
Brian Hamilton said:
This apart from offsides and I hope everyone knows my thoughts on this by now (untrained person and game changing decisions etc.). Also add in that if I disagree with a decision and overrule it's because I had a different angle.

Always thank your CARs at the end of the game.
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Yes I know your feeling about offsides with CARs but here in France, central referee taking care of offsides is just a situation that doesn't exist
 
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