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KFtPM question

santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
So, I have been on holibobs and reading the LotG... I have come across a few things in the pennos sections that are a little unclear to me. So, let's entertain a liitle Q&A:

During kicks from the penalty mark to determine the outcome of the match, you blow for red #9 to kick. Red #9 makes her run up and then kicks the ball backwards. The ball stops just outside the area. What is your decision?
 
The Referee Store
On a regular PK during a game an IDFK is awarded to the opponents for a ball kicked backwards. In KFTM, it would simply be marked as a miss.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Yes. What else are you worrying about?
Don't overthink this one.
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Page 90 of the LotG says this is a YC.
"If the kicker is penalised for an offence committed after the referee has signalled for the kick to be taken, that kick is recorded as missed and the kicker is cautioned."

This is different from the laws on PKs. To me this looks like a mistake... Or is it something "new" that some of us were not aware of... Thoughts?
 
santa sangria said:
Page 90 of the LotG says this is a YC.
"If the kicker is penalised for an offence committed after the referee has signalled for the kick to be taken, that kick is recorded as missed and the kicker is cautioned."

This is different from the laws on PKs. To me this looks like a mistake... Or is it something "new" that some of us were not aware of... Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I can see how there can be some confusion. Law 14 requires the kick to move forward and a PK kicked backwards is punished by an IDFK but not a caution. For all practicality there are only two offences that can be committed during a KFTM - The GK can come off the line early which is a cautionable offense and the kick taker can illegally feint which is also a cautionable offense. If a player kicks the ball backwards for some reason, just call it a miss.
 
cwyeary said:
I can see how there can be some confusion. Law 14 requires the kick to move forward and a PK kicked backwards is punished by an IDFK but not a caution. For all practicality there are only two offences that can be committed during a KFTM - The GK can come off the line early which is a cautionable offense and the kick taker can illegally feint which is also a cautionable offense. If a player kicks the ball backwards for some reason, just call it a miss.
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Great answer. In KftPM there is no mention of kicking the ball forwards (or backwards being an offence). Ok thanks, I can sleep easy on this one;)
 
I see where @santa sangria comes from here.

Law 14 - kicking the ball backwards is an offence, but not a cautionable one.

Law 10 - if kicker commits an offence its recorded as missed and cautioned.

Whilst KFTPM in law 10 doesnt say specifically about kicking forwards surely all penalties during should comply with law 14?

Seems like a contradiction in the laws to me.

However, its somewhat trifling though as there is nothing to be gained from kicking backwards duting KFTPM as there is potentially with a standard PK.

Fwiw I am with @cwyeary to just call that 1 a miss and move on to the next one, if there are any left.
 
Well, in KftPM, if you kick the ball backwards... can it score? Highly unlikely.

And since the kicker cannot touch it a second time... limits the options really, no?
 
AlexF said:
Well, in KftPM, if you kick the ball backwards... can it score? Highly unlikely.

And since the kicker cannot touch it a second time... limits the options really, no?
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Comedy there... So, what about if the kicker kicks the ball twice during KftPM... Is that a caution by law 10?
 
santa sangria said:
Comedy there... So, what about if the kicker kicks the ball twice during KftPM... Is that a caution by law 10?
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Not on my watch. If they kick it twice, most likely one of three things will have happened

1) An inadvertant 'double hit' as we've seen occasionally in the EPL
2) Keeper saves initial shot or comes back off post and player instinctively tries to put it in the net
3) Player miskicks badly and then thinks they can have a second kick (most likely at youth level!)

Don't see any of the above as requiring a caution within the spirit of the game
 
Russell Jones said:
Not on my watch. If they kick it twice, most likely one of three things will have happened

1) An inadvertant 'double hit' as we've seen occasionally in the EPL
2) Keeper saves initial shot or comes back off post and player instinctively tries to put it in the net
3) Player miskicks badly and then thinks they can have a second kick (most likely at youth level!)

Don't see any of the above as requiring a caution within the spirit of the game
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How does that square with the wording on p90, particularly point 3?
 
santa sangria said:
How does that square with the wording on p90, particularly point 3?
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• The kick is completed when the ball stops moving, goes out of play or the
referee stops play for any offence; the kicker may not play the ball a second time

If the player plays the ball a second time, they have completed the kick and it's marked as a miss.
 
cwyeary said:
• The kick is completed when the ball stops moving, goes out of play or the
referee stops play for any offence; the kicker may not play the ball a second time

If the player plays the ball a second time, they have completed the kick and it's marked as a miss.
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Is it an offence to play the ball a second time?
 
Hi SG
Depends what you mean by offence and the consequences. If the kicker deliberately blasted the ball for the second time at the GK then it is VC for which the player will be sent off. If it is frustration gone wrong and accidental then it a decision for the referee to make as to ignore, have a word, caution or dismiss. Personally I could not see a smack in the chops going unpunished in a deliberate follow up kick after a PK is missed.
 
More worrying is that you're on holiday and settling down for a good read... with the good book!

Perhaps, a la Gideons, we ought to petition IFAB to place a copy in a bedside drawer in every hotel room!
 
Peter Grove said:
During KFPM it is. Law 10 states, in the section entitled 'During Kicks from the Penalty Mark':
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Is it an offence?
It's all very well saying "must not"... What if she does?

(And not using the ball as a weapong... Just playing it a second time...)
...coz if it's an offence the LotG say YC as far as I can read...
 
santa sangria said:
Is it an offence?
It's all very well saying "must not"... What if she does?

(And not using the ball as a weapong... Just playing it a second time...)
...coz if it's an offence the LotG say YC as far as I can read...
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Why yellow? Surely an automatic miss is sufficient punishment?
 
Mintyref said:
Why yellow? Surely an automatic miss is sufficient punishment?
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I agree, and define "play". If a caution was mandatory during KTFPM for a second play/touch on the ball, you could potentially see someone receive a second yellow card and be dismissed for something as trivial as a trip or a slip, causing them to "play" the ball a second time. It someone is being a proverbial and whacks the balls a second time, I see nothing wrong with a caution for misconduct, but a straight "May not play the ball a second time, and if the player does it will be a caution" would be very harsh.
 
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