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Junior/Youth last minute 13-0 dogso

K

Kent Ref

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Under 14s and red team beating green team 13-0 with 2 minutes left.

Green player is two yards outside red penalty area central with good possession. Red centre back trips him from behind and player goes down.

In my mind i think "only 2 minutes left" but then i think "do the job properly" and send the player off.

Player gets a £50 fine and a one game ban instead of £12 fine.

I know some would say game management etc but i cannot cheat myself or the game but i genuinely sympathise with the player here.

At F/T red manager ask why couldn't i yellow card due to the time left but i explained i cannot cheat the game.

I really struggle with this type of scenario.
 
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If you are 100% that it is an OGSO then you have no option other than to dismiss the player.

If you are 1% unsure whether it’s an OGSO, then that’s your mitigation.
 
Firstly, you are correct in law (based on the description) so there isn't an issue there. I would question whether it needs to be done at u14s, do you consider the spirit of the game with the time close to the end, especially with the score being what it is? But at the same time the player must learn! Lots of considerations for this, however I would often consider at this age, what does the game expect and what feels right in the moment. At u14s I wouldn't have an issue with a caution and would probably expect some referees to do that as well. Just consider what the game expects and you won't go wrong in a situation like this at that age.
 
You were correct to show a red card. 13-0 or 0-0 it doesn't matter.

If you had given the free kick told the defender that the challenge is a red card so be more aware and learn for next time then I'm sure nobody would have had any issue either
 
Yeh you’re not wrong, but as someone who is normally a stickler for the laws I’m ashamed to say I think I think in this exact situation I could be a hypocrite.

Age group, end of game, and the score, would probably depend on the situation I think. It sounds like the player is hacked down in yours, in which case I’d probs go red. But if the trip was accidental, I could see myself potentially being more lenient.

But you have done the completely correct thing no matter what, and socal lurker actually summed it up best imo. Just admitting I’m not sure what Id do in that situation
 
I echo what I think most comments have said.

You did the by the book right thing.

I wouldn't have done that for reasons already mentioned. Even in open age. I'd of issued a yellow.
 
At 13-0 in a kids game nobody wants a red for DOGSO, nobody.

The fact that you showed the red card shows that you're not afraid to make unpopular decisions and should you choose to go up the ladder then that will serve you well. But perspective is important. 13-0, kids game.......keep the red in your pocket.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
What about next week's ref who could otherwise be subject to an earful in a more contentious circumstance for enforcing the laws?
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If next weeks ref has a DOGSO situation at 13-0 then I'd hope he wouldn't show a red card either.

We're not robots. VC or SFP then match situation is irrelevant. 13-0 with 13 year old kids playing & a DOGSO situation......come on.
 
Ben448844 said:
If next weeks ref has a DOGSO situation at 13-0 then I'd hope he wouldn't show a red card either.

We're not robots. VC or SFP then match situation is irrelevant. 13-0 with 13 year old kids playing & a DOGSO situation......come on.
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I said 'in a more contentious circumstance' i.e. not 13-0. At what margin exactly do you take it upon yourself to ignore an obvious red card? This undermines future refs because teams will come to expect no sending off depending on their differing opinions of the situation rather than what the laws say.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
I said 'in a more contentious circumstance' i.e. not 13-0. At what margin exactly do you take it upon yourself to ignore an obvious red card? This undermines future refs because teams will come to expect no sending off depending on their differing opinions of the situation rather than what the laws say.
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Then if the circumstances are more contentious, give a red card. The answer to your question is to use your judgement. Refereeing is as much about managing people as it is the LOTG. Don't be a robot, especially at the low level kids football. At 13-0, just explain to the other team manager that it's a red but at 13-0 and due to it being a non VC/SFP offence that you aren't going to issue a red card & you'd do the same if it happened to his team at 13-0. The managers will be grateful.

Absolutely everyone understands the difference between choosing to not give a red a 13-0 and having to give one in a competitive game.
 
Ben448844 said:
Then if the circumstances are more contentious, give a red card. The answer to your question is to use your judgement. Refereeing is as much about managing people as it is the LOTG. Don't be a robot, especially at the low level kids football. At 13-0, just explain to the other team manager that it's a red but at 13-0 and due to it being a non VC/SFP offence that you aren't going to issue a red card & you'd do the same if it happened to his team at 13-0. The managers will be grateful.

Absolutely everyone understands the difference between choosing to not give a red a 13-0 and having to give one in a competitive game.
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Referees not following the laws always risks causing difficulties for future refs by emboldening teams to challenge decisions for reasons not based in the laws. This example is at the bottom end of the scale for sure but we shouldn't label referees 'robots' if they would rather apply law correctly. That team that went unpunished this time will be more likely to give the next ref grief who doesn't ignore it even if the scoreline is narrower.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
What about next week's ref who could otherwise be subject to an earful in a more contentious circumstance for enforcing the laws?
Click to expand...
I see where you are coming from with this point. I personally do everything in my power to avoid giving a red for dogso at grassroots.

If there is any mitigation at all, I will go for it. As most people don't want it at the bottom of football.

However, 13-0 at u14s. There is a lot of 'what football expects'.

However @Kent Ref I think it is a rubbish situation to be put in and by no means should you be judged negatively for following the law and thanks for sharing a pretty contentious decision.
 
CaptainsPlease said:
Referees not following the laws always risks causing difficulties for future refs by emboldening teams to challenge decisions for reasons not based in the laws. This example is at the bottom end of the scale for sure but we shouldn't label referees 'robots' if they would rather apply law correctly. That team that went unpunished this time will be more likely to give the next ref grief who doesn't ignore it even if the scoreline is narrower.
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Referees will get grief for applying the law here and will get grief for not doing so (although in this scenario that is very unlikely). Don't worry about the grief, deal with it as you see fit.

When refereeing a game, my last concern is whoever is refereeing these teams in their next game. I have enough to deal with in my own game.

Use your judgement on your game and the next referee must do the same too.

We are talking about 13 year olds playing in what I assume is a low standard of football (considering the score) and the score is 13-0. I have hardly done any kids football in my 8 years of refereeing, but there is a mercy rule because situations where one team hammers the other has alot of negative effects on the losing team. At 13-0 at this low level of kids footy, I'd suggest your management skills need improving if you're going for the red card for a DOGSO. That wouldn't be a criticism of anyone awarding a red card because they've done so knowing that it won't necessarily be accepted well and it's turned what is probably an easy game at 13-0 into a tough one for the referee. But that is a situation that could be managed better, and managing people/games is important.

I am in no way saying doing this in a game which is competitive. There are also other factors at play like goal difference, maybe another team battling relegation with the team who's 13-0 down etc. This is where your judgement comes in. But they're 13 year old kids and it's been a pretty grim experience for them already. Mercy?
 
I am sure a pragmatic match official would be unsure on at least one DOGSO consideration in such circumstances?

Referees are servants of the game, not vice versa.

Better referees are ones who can 'interpret law' and not 'be a slave to it'!
 
I am reminded of a similar incident in a recent game of mine. It was also U14, the standard was high, two good teams playing each other, but with 15 mins to go yellows were 4-0 up against whites, and there was only going to be one winner.

Just outside the box, white centre back attempts a clumsy tackle on a very good yellow striker. Definite free kick, quick blow of the whistle from me. I then think: “ah, that could be Dogso” so I start running through the criteria, but I’ll be honest, I really don’t want to be sending anyone off here. It was a great game, ‘the temperature’ was low, just 30 (inc. subs) 14 year olds enjoying a great game of football (and plenty of mums and dads enjoying watching the game, too)

One chirpy yellow did start to say he (the white defender) should be sent off for dogso, but I quickly shut him up by saying there was a covering defender, so not dogso. Possibly the defender would have got back in time, possibly not. I think I could have justified a red card if I had wanted, but I didn’t want, and so justified showing the defender a yellow instead.

After the game no one mentioned or asked why I didn’t go red. Once play had restarted (and the free kick blasted harmlessly over the bar) everyone had moved on and forgotten about the incident. Had I gone red, I suspect people would still remember it now, two weeks on.

In the OP, whilst I will support the ref who has sent the player off, me, I will be doing all that I can to keep the player on the pitch, look for whatever mitigating factors I can, and explain to both player and coaches (after the game) why I didn’t go red, but that in other, very similar circumstances, they could be seeing red.

Edit to add: I should have mentioned that a week or so before, I had refereed the same white side, and given a player a straight red for SFP. Some parents thought it a bit harsh, but the white team coaching staff agreed with, and were supportive, of my actions.
 
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Darren83 said:
You were correct to show a red card. 13-0 or 0-0 it doesn't matter.

If you had given the free kick told the defender that the challenge is a red card so be more aware and learn for next time then I'm sure nobody would have had any issue either
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I would personally avoid your second suggestion.

If said player goes running off to coach or mum and dad saying I should’ve been sent off but the ref let me stay on, or it’s overheard and another player makes a dismissal worthy challenge and is sent off, it undermines your authority and could potentially be interpreted as bias or failure to apply LOTG. I’d like to think any assessors would agree with this.

In the scenario given, everyone is probably going to understand why a red isn’t issued and to use the phrase the game didn’t need it / expect it, but I would avoid empty threats or saying you should’ve done something but didn’t because of the context, it’s a slippery slope (by all means think it in your head and then sell the yellow card “just reckless, covering defender etc.”)
 
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