A&H

Liverpool V Spurs

I just watched the highlights and found some more clips.

- Lovren: just terrible. Fails to properly kick the ball. It's a deliberate play. No offside. This clip
shows that Karius is beaten and he catches Kane's trailing leg. It has to be a pen.
- VVD: the twit vid above is the same that I have seen and from the other higher res normal speed versions it is impossible to say if there was any contact with the initial kick, there just isn't visual proof. Then Lamela goes down, then there is contact with the knee. Moss waved it away. I think it was a good initial decision. Though he could have easily booked Lamela for diving.

Watching the highlights it is clear that Moss did not have a good game. TAA should have seen red. For the Kane penalty Moss was directly in line with no angle, hence he didn't see the touches. AR2 and Moss were slow to signal and whistle and prevent the collision between Firminio and Loris - that was a really bad error. And then Moss and AR1 have poor communication for the first penalty. And Moss should have stuck with his decision for the second penalty. Milner could have also seen red. Overall a bad day at the office and lots to learn here about communications, movement, decision-making.

Again, the VVD decision could go either way... as I have learnt on these boards.. it's all about the LotG and if you can sell it.
 
The Referee Store
How about this below? This is a direct quote from a scientist on an Arsenal forum I frequent who apparently doesn't know much about football.

"After watching the refereeing decisions in the Spurs Liverpool game, and others, I'm really starting to understand football a lot better.

Until VAR comes in, absolutely anything can happen. Off sides, pens, people sent off, free kicks in dangerous positions . . . . game changing random decisions that bear no resemblance to what actually happens in the game.

Football is a f***ing lottery."
 
Andy Gray on Sky was a total buffoon with the offside... wants to give the flag and decision when the ball is kicked no matter what comes after... stuck in the 1890's!
 
NorthLondonRef said:
Until VAR comes in, absolutely anything can happen. Off sides, pens, people sent off, free kicks in dangerous positions . . . . game changing random decisions that bear no resemblance to what actually happens in the game.
Click to expand...

Can't wait to see what the answer is when VAR happens and the decision still doesn't go the way they're expecting it to.
 
RobOda said:
Can't wait to see what the answer is when VAR happens and the decision still doesn't go the way they're expecting it to.
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Yep. I'm not a fan of VAR and as an Arsenal fan, the amount of fans that think VAR is suddenly going to make sure their team is never going to be on the end of a disputable call or one they disagree with is ridiculous. Everyone thinks their team is hard done by and VAR is magically going to be the answer.
 
GraemeS said:
I'm not taking the PGMOL's word as gospel I'm afraid - they're not lawmakers, they're simply a union for referees, with some very unsubtle vested interests when it comes to not wanting to make match officials look bad...
Click to expand...
But they have made the officials look bad!

Those who think Lovren's action was "deliberate" - if the ball had missed Kane and gone through to the GK, would you think it had been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate?
 
Take it from someone who watches a league with VAR. Nothing is fixed by having it. This(these) incidents are a case in point. Ask 10 blokes for their opinions and you'll get a 50 / 50 split on the what it should have been.

VAR is an abortion and a blight on the game only invented to fill the pockets of the FIFA hacks that want it implemented.


On another matter. Does a player have to touch the ball for it to be a 'deliberate' attempt and obviate the offside call? Going back to that incident where Kane is standing in an offside position what if the defender (Lovren?) deliberately swung his boot at it but took an air swing and missed it.

Whats the ruling there?
 
bloovee said:
But they have made the officials look bad!

Those who think Lovren's action was "deliberate" - if the ball had missed Kane and gone through to the GK, would you think it had been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate?
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I don't think Lovren touch (if there was a touch) was deliberate play but I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
Apart from the context being different, the deliberate on the back pass is not on play (kick in this instance), it's for the intended target.
 
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Just throwing this into the debate - the laws give absolutely no help in differentiating between a deliberate play and a deflection but both FIFA and UEFA have in the past, published the following definitions:
DeflectVDeliberate.png
It seems to me the touch by Lovren is much closer to the FIFA definition of a deflection than that of a deliberate play.
 
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Sheffields Finest said:
Can you earn a penalty from an offside position?? :cool::cool::cool:
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Yes you can - and the criteria for deciding if you should award the foul or the offside offence are spelled out in the law:

"In situations where: [...]
  • a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
  • an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge"
 
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