lvl 7 - lvl 1

[DavidObs]

Yes that

I wouldn't disagree with the ideology that an average performance should attract a mark of 70 dead, but you'd need everyone to be on the same page with that and I can't see that happening!

Yes thats fair enough though I think we are generally talking about the general ball park of 70 for normal, rather than an exact mark. I remember my first ‘ghost’ report I did when mentored by a senior observer that my mark was 70 with 7’s all the way down the line because I considered the Referee’s performance under all of the competencies didn’t warrant anything higher than a 7, or anything less. However, after receiving feedback from the head guru, it has never happened since (12 years x approx 50 games per season!!).

 

[Runner Ref]

This is absolutely true, and I've had one this season who's known as a high marker. I think the only slight issue is this leaves it open to 'playing the game'. Referees who come off of their game because they know the observer is a 'low marker'.
I've never done that, and never will, but it's no secret that it happens.

No comment

 

[Archer]

I offered my services as AR when I knew who the Observer was.

Mentioning no members in particular

 

[Russell Jones]

Having been involved in different capacities (Observer, Match Official, Promotion Co-Ordinator) across a wide range of promotion levels (Level 7 up to National List), I'm firmly of the opinion that the only level which struggles to be 'fit for purpose' is Level 4. Here's the thinking:

7 to 5 is now set up to incentivise swift progression. Unless (or in some counties, even if!) your on field performances are terrible, you are likely to make these steps

5 to 4. Even with the adjustment to a minimum Observation average of 71, those with true potential to perform at Level 4 and beyond should make this jump with ease. In my county, those who have gone on to L3 and above have typically averaged between 72 and 74, so comfortable versus the requirement

3 and above. Availability of Observers is good enough that (certainly in my area), referees are able to be seen 10+ times across the season. Whilst it remains possible to be unlucky with your mix of Observers & Match Incidents, statistically the cream should be able to rise to the top.

At Level 4, it's somewhat of a lottery. With fewer middles on offer and even fewer of them Observed, luck can play a huge part in promotion from this Level. Personally, I feel I was fortunate to be promoted in my second season ... and the Isthmian / Southern clubs who had to suffer me in subsequent seasons might agree!! And I know highly capable colleagues who took 5+ years to 'escape' this level before becoming good performers at Level 3. No easy solution to this issue however, until / unless more money / Observers can be found. My maths background tells me that there should be a nifty statistical workaround but I wouldn't be holding my breath for this ....

 

[RefereeX]

3 and above. Availability of Observers is good enough that (certainly in my area), referees are able to be seen 10+ times across the season. Whilst it remains possible to be unlucky with your mix of Observers & Match Incidents, statistically the cream should be able to rise to the top.

I don't think this is really the target any more. I've had 7 this season, but only 2 of them were between August and December.
(I then spent 2 months out injured and somehow ended up with 5 observations in my last 6 step 4 games including 2 in 3 days and 3 in 9 days)

I do think the FA's new system is looking to try and correct this and I know high performing level 3s and 4s are being invited to trial for CORE which in turn will offer extra opportunities for progression.

 

[DavidObs]

Having been involved in different capacities (Observer, Match Official, Promotion Co-Ordinator) across a wide range of promotion levels (Level 7 up to National List), I'm firmly of the opinion that the only level which struggles to be 'fit for purpose' is Level 4. Here's the thinking:

7 to 5 is now set up to incentivise swift progression. Unless (or in some counties, even if!) your on field performances are terrible, you are likely to make these steps

5 to 4. Even with the adjustment to a minimum Observation average of 71, those with true potential to perform at Level 4 and beyond should make this jump with ease. In my county, those who have gone on to L3 and above have typically averaged between 72 and 74, so comfortable versus the requirement

3 and above. Availability of Observers is good enough that (certainly in my area), referees are able to be seen 10+ times across the season. Whilst it remains possible to be unlucky with your mix of Observers & Match Incidents, statistically the cream should be able to rise to the top.

At Level 4, it's somewhat of a lottery. With fewer middles on offer and even fewer of them Observed, luck can play a huge part in promotion from this Level. Personally, I feel I was fortunate to be promoted in my second season ... and the Isthmian / Southern clubs who had to suffer me in subsequent seasons might agree!! And I know highly capable colleagues who took 5+ years to 'escape' this level before becoming good performers at Level 3. No easy solution to this issue however, until / unless more money / Observers can be found. My maths background tells me that there should be a nifty statistical workaround but I wouldn't be holding my breath for this ....

All good to know & perfectly understandable/logical. Although I predominantly Observe L2’s & 3’s, this season, I have probably also observed 8-10 L4’s & always happy to do so, though I am aware that this feeling is not shared by all L2-L3 Observers, though I don’t know why - some very decent venues, clubs, standard of football & Referees.

 

[NoFoulsAllowed]

How long do you reckon it will take for a referee to go from level 7 to level 1? Just pure curiosity.

You need to square away 30 games for 7>6 plus 2 coaching reports (which involves a level of coordinating with others), and another 30 games for 6>5 plus 2 more coaching reports.

This should take enthusiastic individuals a full season. But can easily take longer due to a few quirks. Communication with RDO is important.

5>4 can only be done in two formats. Seasonally or annually. You can't speed your way through it. So there is another year.

So 7 to 4 could be done in 2 seasons. But it would need to be clean.

Then I've seen conversation about people doing 4>3 in 6 months (have to be a true talent with a sprinkle of luck).

Also heard of people doing 3>2 in 6 months.

So theoretically possible to 7>2 in 3 full seasons.

 

[Archer]

OR... become a pro footballer, have a middling 15-year career at all the titanic clubs like Stevenage, Gillingham, Barnet, Tranmere and a loan spell at Cray Valley Paper Mills (plus three England B caps)... then retire and join that new PGMOL ExPro scheme. Easy!

 

[RefereeX]

OR... become a pro footballer, have a middling 15-year career at all the titanic clubs like Stevenage, Gillingham, Barnet, Tranmere and a loan spell at Cray Valley Paper Mills (plus three England B caps)... then retire and join that new PGMOL ExPro scheme. Easy!

Tranmere seems a little bit out there geographically for your hypothetical footballer...

 

[DavidObs]

Having been involved in different capacities (Observer, Match Official, Promotion Co-Ordinator) across a wide range of promotion levels (Level 7 up to National List), I'm firmly of the opinion that the only level which struggles to be 'fit for purpose' is Level 4. Here's the thinking:

7 to 5 is now set up to incentivise swift progression. Unless (or in some counties, even if!) your on field performances are terrible, you are likely to make these steps

5 to 4. Even with the adjustment to a minimum Observation average of 71, those with true potential to perform at Level 4 and beyond should make this jump with ease. In my county, those who have gone on to L3 and above have typically averaged between 72 and 74, so comfortable versus the requirement

3 and above. Availability of Observers is good enough that (certainly in my area), referees are able to be seen 10+ times across the season. Whilst it remains possible to be unlucky with your mix of Observers & Match Incidents, statistically the cream should be able to rise to the top.

At Level 4, it's somewhat of a lottery. With fewer middles on offer and even fewer of them Observed, luck can play a huge part in promotion from this Level. Personally, I feel I was fortunate to be promoted in my second season ... and the Isthmian / Southern clubs who had to suffer me in subsequent seasons might agree!! And I know highly capable colleagues who took 5+ years to 'escape' this level before becoming good performers at Level 3. No easy solution to this issue however, until / unless more money / Observers can be found. My maths background tells me that there should be a nifty statistical workaround but I wouldn't be holding my breath for this ....

All good to know & perfectly understandable/logical. Although I predominantly Observe L2’s & 3’s, this season, I have probably also observed 5-8 L4’s & always happy to do so, though I am aware that this feeling is not shared by all L2-L3 Observers, though I don’t know why - some very decent venues, clubs, standard of football & Referees

OR... become a pro footballer, have a middling 15-year career at all the titanic clubs like Stevenage, Gillingham, Barnet, Tranmere and a loan spell at Cray Valley Paper Mills (plus three England B caps)... then retire and join that new PGMOL ExPro scheme. Easy!

plus £40k per year for 3 years!

 

[Archer]

plus £40k per year for 3 years!

Get called an arsehole on a weekly basis AND take a pay cut? Sign me up!

 

[RustyRef]

There's no doubt you need an element of luck when it comes to promotion. How challenging your games are, which observers you get, how good the other referees are performing, etc. That isn't a new thing, I was at L3 when the statement that marks should generally be between 70 and 73, I averaged 73 and was looking over my shoulder at the demotion places. They didn't publish average marks back then, but an average of bang on 73 had me at 301/451. I emailed the FA to check that they had my average mark correct as I couldn't understand how someone at the top of the marking scale was in the bottom third of the merit table, I just got a reply confirming my mark indeed was 73.