A&H

Man U v PSG

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The thing with these sort of threads is you can almost copy and paste the same arguments time and again.

Outside of the UK this is considered to be a handball offence and is expected to be penalised. Within the UK we seem to place greater emphasis on the deliberate element of the law and say no it’s not handball.

However, football is a global game. The question is one of if all bar 4 associations are saying that this should be handball is this not what the global game of football expects?

Hopefully IFAB will actually help us with the law changes once we actually get to see the wording and guidance for next season
 
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The thing with these sort of threads is you can almost copy and paste the same arguments time and again.

Outside of the UK this is considered to be a handball offence and is expected to be penalised. Within the UK we seem to place greater emphasis on the deliberate element of the law and say no it’s not handball.

However, football is a global game. The question is one of if all bar 4 associations are saying that this should be handball is this not what the global game of football expects?

Hopefully IFAB will actually help us with the law changes once we actually get to see the wording and guidance for next season
All bar 4 associations are disregarding the Law as its written
How can a global game be officiated on such basis?
 
He’s deliberately attempted to block the ball, but with his arm? I’m not so sure. If that were the case it would be further away from his body than it was. He’s seen a player about to take a shot and thrown himself at it. If anything, keeping your arms to your chest or right by your side would be more unnatural than what actually happened
No, he has deliberately attempted to block the ball with his body but has failed to do so and as a result the ball has hit his arm which is away from his body. A deliberate act on the part of the player has meant that the ball has hit his arm - he wasn't just standing there minding his own business, he has thrown himself in the way of the ball. Under the CL (and it seems the rest of the world) interpretation that is handball.
 
No, he has deliberately attempted to block the ball with his body but has failed to do so and as a result the ball has hit his arm which is away from his body. A deliberate act on the part of the player has meant that the ball has hit his arm - he wasn't just standing there minding his own business, he has thrown himself in the way of the ball. Under the CL (and it seems the rest of the world) interpretation that is handball.
That logic is suggesting that any player trying to block the ball would be caught with deliberate handball because he can’t remove his arms from his body. The key line for me is ‘the movement of the hand towards the ball’. If his back is turned, his can he deliberately make a movement of the hand towards the ball, especially with the pace the ball is going at.
 
View from France, by a Londoner, with no Man Utd affiliaton! PENALTY

In France and probably all of Europe except England that is now a handball (especially once seen by VAR). Anyway, from the 1st June in will be officially! Sure the defender turns his back, but he knows he is putting his arm out in the direction of the ball, so just to be devil's advocate, that is a penalty all day!
Vive Brexit!!!!!!!:(;):)
That's a load of bullocks, it came off a deflection and by definition was not deliberate, just like Brexit all of the rest of Europe out of step again....
 
Someone will have to change, won't they? Better be Johnny Foreigner, eh?
We know who that will be by the impending Law changes. It's a farcical process by which regional Confederations/Associations exert influence, such that games are refereed inconsistently around the world. The game is then officiated not in accordance with Law, until the AGM comes around (at which point the changes make it into Law). The tail is wagging the dog and the standard of officiating overall, is badly compromised
 
The thing with these sort of threads is you can almost copy and paste the same arguments time and again.

Outside of the UK this is considered to be a handball offence and is expected to be penalised. Within the UK we seem to place greater emphasis on the deliberate element of the law and say no it’s not handball.

However, football is a global game. The question is one of if all bar 4 associations are saying that this should be handball is this not what the global game of football expects?

Hopefully IFAB will actually help us with the law changes once we actually get to see the wording and guidance for next season
So why do the minority, correctly interpretingbthe law as it is written, have to bow to the weight of opinion? The powers that be need to make all associations apply the law correctly, both as it stands now and as it may yet be written. It would be simple really to just remove the word deliberate....sorted!
 
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. Who doesn't agree with that?
The block was a deliberate act of a player. Agree or not?
During that block the ball made contact with the hand or arm. Once again true?

Looks like it matches the basic definition of handling the ball to me.

The next three bullet points are considerations.
For me, it is not ball towards hand nor is it unexpected ball.

Like it or not, there's a reasoning behind the decision which leads you to handball.
 
We know who that will be by the impending Law changes. It's a farcical process by which regional Confederations/Associations exert influence, such that games are refereed inconsistently around the world. The game is then officiated not in accordance with Law, until the AGM comes around (at which point the changes make it into Law). The tail is wagging the dog and the standard of officiating overall, is badly compromised
What makes you think the 4 UK associations are the dog? And why do you think said 4 would make a better job of it on their own?
 
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. Who doesn't agree with that?

Agree
The block was a deliberate act of a player. Agree or not?

Agree
During that block the ball made contact with the hand or arm. Once again true?

True

Looks like it matches the basic definition of handling the ball to me.

Wrong, the act of handling the ball was not in itself deliberate.

The next three bullet points are considerations.
For me, it is not ball towards hand nor is it unexpected ball.
Ball moves towards hand.
Ball is deflected therefore it is unexpected.

Like it or not, there's a reasoning behind the decision which leads you to handball.

Reasoning yes, but badly thought out and wrong.
 
What makes you think the 4 UK associations are the dog? And why do you think said 4 would make a better job of it on their own?
What I meant is that patterns of decisions (influenced on a regional basis) are determining Law
Law is not determining how the game is officiated
Tale wagging the dog (which this cat don't like)
 
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. Who doesn't agree with that?
The block was a deliberate act of a player. Agree or not?
During that block the ball made contact with the hand or arm. Once again true?

Looks like it matches the basic definition of handling the ball to me.

The next three bullet points are considerations.
For me, it is not ball towards hand nor is it unexpected ball.

Like it or not, there's a reasoning behind the decision which leads you to handball.
There's no possibility whatsoever that I'm giving HB for this based on the Law (which you've quoted)
Therein lies the problem. Two perfectly valid opinions, completely opposed to one another
Net result, dreadful officiating because a completely different outcome is separated by two games
 
There's no possibility whatsoever that I'm giving HB for this based on the Law (which you've quoted)
Therein lies the problem. Two perfectly valid opinions, completely opposed to one another
Net result, dreadful officiating because a completely different outcome is separated by two games
In fairness to you, under the same conditions as you and I operate, neither did Skomina. It is only when VAR points out the incident that he has a second chance. I happen to believe that the decision is correct but I'd also admit that, like you (& Skomina), I wouldn't be awarding a penalty for handball on first viewing.
 
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. Who doesn't agree with that?
The block was a deliberate act of a player. Agree or not?
During that block the ball made contact with the hand or arm. Once again true?

Looks like it matches the basic definition of handling the ball to me.

The next three bullet points are considerations.
For me, it is not ball towards hand nor is it unexpected ball.

Like it or not, there's a reasoning behind the decision which leads you to handball.

A player is running towards opponents goal (deliberately running). Or for this purpose lets say he is on the ground attempting to remove a calf muscle cramp (deliberately). BUT he has no idea where ball or play is. An opponent deliberately kicks the ball into his hand from behind. Your logic says this is deliberate handball as he was in the process of 'a deliberate act' and the ball made contact with his hand. I think you are misinterpreting the law to suite the OP game situation without consideration of the logic's implications.
 
A player is running towards opponents goal (deliberately running). Or for this purpose lets say he is on the ground attempting to remove a calf muscle cramp (deliberately). BUT he has no idea where ball or play is. An opponent deliberately kicks the ball into his hand from behind. Your logic says this is deliberate handball as he was in the process of 'a deliberate act' and the ball made contact with his hand. I think you are misinterpreting the law to suite the OP game situation without consideration of the logic's implications.
Nearly all you posts are thought provoking, useful, and on the whole sensible (unlike mine). I don't get the same feeling after reading that one.
 
For me the big difference here is the jump - if the players stays on the ground and turns his back, probably would not give it.
In this instance he has turned, jumped and stuck his arm out!

I should point out that my interpretation of DHB here is not always appreciated, as I began my refereeing in England, and still tend to use my 'old fashioned' handballs as the yardstick, or should that be metre rule!!!!!!
 
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I wouldn't give it. But i wont have too much of a problem if the referee gave it on his own (or on advice of AR, 4th using comms). My gripe is with VAR getting involved and the once-sided/biased process after that.
 
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