A&H

Manager confrontation - Half Time

Gabriel

Gabriel

Well-Known Member
In a match I refereed on Sunday, the away team scored a goal in first half stoppage time to go 1-0 up (won 4-0), and the home manager was absolutely adamant that there was a foul throw and a foul on the keeper in the build up. I couldn't see the foul throw incident due to there being 6/7 players between me and the thrower, so it was impossible to tell (benefit of doubt to attacker here), and the foul on the keeper was actually 100% a foul on the attacker for which I played advantage. At half-time, the CAR starting moaning, so I ignored him as they are not there to advise me on fouls etc, nor are they qualified to tell me I got something wrong, and then when I turned around the home team manager was stood directly behind me and proceed to rant about the goal. In law, I know I should (or at least could) have sent him off for this, but in order to avoid all hell breaking loose, I walked away without punishing him. Should I have taken the hit on the potential Mass Con and RCd him or did I manage this effectively?
 
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Gabe said:
In a match I refereed on Sunday, the away team scored a goal in first half stoppage time to go 1-0 up (won 4-0), and the home manager was absolutely adamant that there was a foul throw and a foul on the keeper in the build up. I couldn't see the foul throw incident due to there being 6/7 players between me and the thrower, so it was impossible to tell (benefit of doubt to attacker here), and the foul on the keeper was actually 100% a foul on the attacker for which I played advantage. At half-time, the CAR starting moaning, so I ignored him as they are not there to advise me on fouls etc, nor are they qualified to tell me I got something wrong, and then when I turned around the home team manager was stood directly behind me and proceed to rant about the goal. In law, I know I should (or at least could) have sent him off for this, but in order to avoid all hell breaking loose, I walked away without punishing him. Should I have taken the hit on the potential Mass Con and RCd him or did I manage this effectively?
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Depends what he said, and how. Abuse directed at you should have been a red card, or if only mild possibly a caution
Did the CAR continue in the 2nd half? Or did you get him replaced?
How was the manager in the second half?
Not sure why you expected a Mass Con if you dismissed the manager?
So many questions!
 
One thought would be to (if possible) position yourself at half time so as to minimise the chance of these types of conversation. Especially if you know that something 'controversial' has happened!
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Depends what he said, and how. Abuse directed at you should have been a red card, or if only mild possibly a caution
Did the CAR continue in the 2nd half? Or did you get him replaced?
How was the manager in the second half?
Not sure why you expected a Mass Con if you dismissed the manager?
So many questions!
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I don't think it matters what is said. Entering FOP at full or half time to show dissent/remonstrate with ref leaves little to no option as the law is written
 
JamesL said:
I don't think it matters what is said. Entering FOP at full or half time to show dissent/remonstrate with ref leaves little to no option as the law is written
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While this is technically correct, in a grassroots environment, I think there is room for a referee to look the other way and give a caution, depending on the extent of what is said. That said, inferring from the word “rant” in the OP that this was much more than a few words, I would agree that a send off was most likely the best answer. When we are overly generous in not sanctioning behavior, we are essentially telling the coach (or player, etc) that the behavior is acceptable so they can do it again with another R.
 
Russell Jones said:
One thought would be to (if possible) position yourself at half time so as to minimise the chance of these types of conversation. Especially if you know that something 'controversial' has happened!
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Absolutely, if I know there have been controversial decisions I will make absolutely certain I'm on or near the opposite touchline when the half and full time whistle is blown. If a manager or coach wants to have a moan he is going to have to travel a long was to do so. Always baffles me when referees blow for time when they are next to the benches, it is just inviting comments or worse.
 
RustyRef said:
Absolutely, if I know there have been controversial decisions I will make absolutely certain I'm on or near the opposite touchline when the half and full time whistle is blown. If a manager or coach wants to have a moan he is going to have to travel a long was to do so. Always baffles me when referees blow for time when they are next to the benches, it is just inviting comments or worse.
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That is definitely advantage of having teams on the same touchline. In much lower level soccer here, the teams (and their spectator) are on separate touchlines. Advantages and disadvantages of that. (For youth games, I think it is great to keep opposing parents away from one another!)
 
socal lurker said:
That is definitely advantage of having teams on the same touchline. In much lower level soccer here, the teams (and their spectator) are on separate touchlines. Advantages and disadvantages of that. (For youth games, I think it is great to keep opposing parents away from one another!)
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In which case the centre circle is your friend at half time :) . Much like the rest of the time when I was reffing (hence now a specialist AR) :rolleyes:
 
Russell Jones said:
In which case the centre circle is your friend at half time :) . Much like the rest of the time when I was reffing (hence now a specialist AR) :rolleyes:
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Indeed. Standard practice is for R and ARs (or the 2 Rs in “dual” games . . . Yes, I know, but high school soccer has its own rules and allows it…) to meet in the center circle and walk off together to wherever are water is.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
Depends what he said, and how. Abuse directed at you should have been a red card, or if only mild possibly a caution
Did the CAR continue in the 2nd half? Or did you get him replaced?
How was the manager in the second half?
Not sure why you expected a Mass Con if you dismissed the manager?
So many questions!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say I "expected" a Mass Con as much as I was aware of the fact that both of his assistants were behind him, leading me to believe there was a potentially higher risk of it happening. It was more the way he was shouting in my face than the language he used that bothered me. The CAR stopped in the 2nd half because I told him he could stop or give me my flag back and watch from the car basically. The manager wasn't as bad in the 2nd half, although wasn't behaving all too well.
 
RustyRef said:
Always baffles me when referees blow for time when they are next to the benches, it is just inviting comments or worse.
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I blew when I was in the centre circle and then took a few steps back towards the other touchline as I am very aware of this possibility as they have come my way on a couple of occasions. I then turned to face the moaning CAR and it was when I turned back that the manager was stood behind me.
 
socal lurker said:
While this is technically correct, in a grassroots environment, I think there is room for a referee to look the other way and give a caution, depending on the extent of what is said. That said, inferring from the word “rant” in the OP that this was much more than a few words, I would agree that a send off was most likely the best answer. When we are overly generous in not sanctioning behavior, we are essentially telling the coach (or player, etc) that the behavior is acceptable so they can do it again with another R.
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I think if it happened again, I would definitely sanction the behaviour more harshly (ie RC). I'm still very much in that phase of learning though as I have only been refereeing since September.
 
Gabe said:
In a match I refereed on Sunday, the away team scored a goal in first half stoppage time to go 1-0 up (won 4-0), and the home manager was absolutely adamant that there was a foul throw and a foul on the keeper in the build up. I couldn't see the foul throw incident due to there being 6/7 players between me and the thrower, so it was impossible to tell (benefit of doubt to attacker here), and the foul on the keeper was actually 100% a foul on the attacker for which I played advantage. At half-time, the CAR starting moaning, so I ignored him as they are not there to advise me on fouls etc, nor are they qualified to tell me I got something wrong, and then when I turned around the home team manager was stood directly behind me and proceed to rant about the goal. In law, I know I should (or at least could) have sent him off for this, but in order to avoid all hell breaking loose, I walked away without punishing him. Should I have taken the hit on the potential Mass Con and RCd him or did I manage this effectively?
Click to expand...
I agree with what everyone else has said and certainly employ the mindset of trying to be a fair distance from the side with the managers on. It makes it really easy when someone comes marching over to just shout across to them and tell them that you're not having a chat. With regards to sanction, if you think a Red is necessary, go for it. If you think a yellow is necessary, go for it. Or if you think that you're able to deal with it and maybe just explain what you saw, that's your 3rd option. It all depends on how the manager approaches you and how well you know how they might act.

With regards to the potential foul throws, my advice is when you have CARs, always try and take up a position where you can actually see the thrower especially at youth football. I had an U14s game the other week where I must've had to give about 10 foul throws because one team just couldn't take a throw 🤣
 
Josh the referee said:
With regards to the potential foul throws, my advice is when you have CARs, always try and take up a position where you can actually see the thrower especially at youth football. I had an U14s game the other week where I must've had to give about 10 foul throws because one team just couldn't take a throw 🤣
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I’d take a slightly different view. I’d say that foul throws are the least important calls in the game. It is far more important to be paying attention to the anticipated landing zone, as that is where something significant is likely to happen.
 
socal lurker said:
I’d take a slightly different view. I’d say that foul throws are the least important calls in the game. It is far more important to be paying attention to the anticipated landing zone, as that is where something significant is likely to happen.
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Yeah I agree but if you can get a view of everything, that's always the best option
 
I nearly always attempt to do this with foul throws, but on this occasion I simply didn't have time.
 
socal lurker said:
I’d take a slightly different view. I’d say that foul throws are the least important calls in the game. It is far more important to be paying attention to the anticipated landing zone, as that is where something significant is likely to happen.
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Yes and no. Context. Defending throws, kids, poorly coached, OK.

Long throw into the box, throw to set up a goal, fans/players whinging about foul throws and setting you up to fail… then you need to act.

At grassroots a few quiet words on the run with the left back that has stuggled to coordinate a decent throw in the first half, fine.

But no one wants a goal scored from a thrower with one leg on the air!
 
I was talking about generalities. I agree the time to be strict is when a player is trying to launch the ball. But in my experience the vast majority of the time people are whining about bad TIs, they actually aren’t. They look funny without violating the law, or a foot came up after the ball was thrown, which is perfectly legal.
 
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