I just say it, I'd rather those comments than lose control of a game for looking like a jobsworth with no cause
Managing subs - 7-6 / 6-5
- Thread starter Refollie
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They will usually have already figured it out anyway.
Just do it.
RefJef
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I wouldn’t tell the managers I was being observed, but I might (and probably would/did if this was a subsequent observation to the one where it had been raised as a development point) brief both managers before the game about my expectations re subs: something like: “ happy for you to have subs whenever you want them, but I’ve not got neutral officials helping me on the line today, so I need your help with subs please. Just make sure your subs don’t come on until the leaving player has left the pitch. Thanks”
It is rare that someone hasn't asked me before a call is kicked if I'm there to "assess" the referee, unless there are a lot of people standing pitch side the observer / coach stood with a notebook is going to stand out like a sore thumb. I'd started telling people when they asked that I was the referee's coach, but I've gone back to saying observer as it feels like they think they can be more forthright about the referee's performance to his coach than his observer. They know an observer can't, or shouldn't, discuss incidents but they think a coach should.
Why not ask the coach / observer when you speak to him before the game what his expectation are on managing subs? If a 7 to 6 or a 6 to 5 referee was to ask me that I would tell them that I just want to see some management of them, but I wouldn't expect him to come to the touchline every time. Same as if they ask me about under shorts / shirts and sock tape, I'll tell them to not to kill their match control by having an argument with players before they've even blown the whistle.
Why not ask the coach / observer when you speak to him before the game what his expectation are on managing subs? If a 7 to 6 or a 6 to 5 referee was to ask me that I would tell them that I just want to see some management of them, but I wouldn't expect him to come to the touchline every time. Same as if they ask me about under shorts / shirts and sock tape, I'll tell them to not to kill their match control by having an argument with players before they've even blown the whistle.
I've had 2 match day coach visits this season, told the teams both times and behaviour was impeccable. That being said, I always warn teams I'm one of, if not the strictest ref they'll have when it comes to dissent so I won't take any, happy to talk to anyone and explain/discuss a decision so ultimately there's no need for dissent anyway. On my first MDC visit It was noted about subs, that I needed to go over and meet them at the halfway line, control the whole thing (CARs) on my second I automatically did this, about 10 yards from touchline and made it visible that I was taking notes of who came on/off.
I do think that as MDCs at 7-6 or 6-5 they can be a bit harsh because as most people have said, who can honestly say that they go over and "manage" the substitution process at the bottom levels of Sunday league football. Good habits I guess, prepping people for higher levels even though the higher up you go the easier the process is because you have NARs or a 4th to do it
I do think that as MDCs at 7-6 or 6-5 they can be a bit harsh because as most people have said, who can honestly say that they go over and "manage" the substitution process at the bottom levels of Sunday league football. Good habits I guess, prepping people for higher levels even though the higher up you go the easier the process is because you have NARs or a 4th to do it
Good habits, exactly this.
I had a MDC that insisted on this and wanted it very neat and tidy. At the time I felt it was a right ball ache. Now - I know exactly why he did it and I’m glad for the advice - albeit I may not manage it the same every single time.
Had my second MDC yesterday. Really nice fella (L4) and incredibly helpful and constructive, as my first one was. Because subs prootocol has come up numerous times on here I specifically raised it with him pre-game and his advice was a) at this level (Sunday local league) with no NARs you can be a little more relaxed but still control the process and b) just be you, which I took to mean don't do anything different just because I'm here.
Briefed coaches in advance - not that I was being observed (as @RustyRef says they worked that out anyway because someone was there with a notebook wrapped up against the 40mph winds who wasn't with either team!) but that first time a player comes on it's at halfway and wait for player to come off the pitch first, then once all subs have been on once we can be a little more relaxed. I did miss a halftime sub with a Garmin watch under a wrist-band that the coach picked up but he didn't mark me down for it - guess it's something you learn to spot with more experience.
All in all got another very positive report even though the weather and pitch (sloping both downhill and left to right, with winds blowing in that direction) made it really challenging - my position went a bit to pot a bit in the second half due to me anticipating too much and being too central when ball was out left - and it was a pretty uneventful game unlike the one next door where there was a mass brawl!
For those of us who middle on our own (eg Dog & Duck league and youth football) I've found the two coaches unbelievably helpful, same as I did with the ARs on the two occasions last season I had them. I've seen some negativity on here about observations/MDCs but personally can't fault the ones I've had in the slightest - friendly, encouraging, willing to advise/answer questions, very specific feedback and things to focus on and no surprises in terms of the report being different to verbal feedback.
Fingers crossed I've passed and will be L6 by the end of the month.
Briefed coaches in advance - not that I was being observed (as @RustyRef says they worked that out anyway because someone was there with a notebook wrapped up against the 40mph winds who wasn't with either team!) but that first time a player comes on it's at halfway and wait for player to come off the pitch first, then once all subs have been on once we can be a little more relaxed. I did miss a halftime sub with a Garmin watch under a wrist-band that the coach picked up but he didn't mark me down for it - guess it's something you learn to spot with more experience.
All in all got another very positive report even though the weather and pitch (sloping both downhill and left to right, with winds blowing in that direction) made it really challenging - my position went a bit to pot a bit in the second half due to me anticipating too much and being too central when ball was out left - and it was a pretty uneventful game unlike the one next door where there was a mass brawl!
For those of us who middle on our own (eg Dog & Duck league and youth football) I've found the two coaches unbelievably helpful, same as I did with the ARs on the two occasions last season I had them. I've seen some negativity on here about observations/MDCs but personally can't fault the ones I've had in the slightest - friendly, encouraging, willing to advise/answer questions, very specific feedback and things to focus on and no surprises in terms of the report being different to verbal feedback.
Fingers crossed I've passed and will be L6 by the end of the month.