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Mass brawl and abandoned

M

Monotone Whistle

Well-Known Member
I had a mass brawl yesterday involving all 22 outfield players, most of the subs and a couple of spectators. It came from nothing, good-tempered game, but a rash reckless tackle in the final minute of the match sparked a load of Violent Conduct and before I knew it everyone was piling in.

Luckily I had two neutral assistants to help me record everything we saw, but the Meyle continued for nearly ten minutes and small fights and pushing/shoving broke out conitnually. I decided to abandon the game as there was no hope of restoring order and to be honest there was no way some of the players would have behaved themselves.

My concern is have I handled it correctly? I didn't issue any cards following the mass brawl, I decided that doing so would probably have inflamed the situation more - between myself and my assistants I have four reds, nine yellows, plus a load of club officials and spectators misconduct, all ready to go into a huge misconduct report. I have names of all the players involved and specifics of what they did. I spoke to the league last night who said I should have issued the cards and then abandoned??

I'm a bit concerned now that I may have dealt with it incorrectly.
 
The Referee Store
Sounds ok.
Your first duty is self-preservation. As ever, get the misconduct report nailed down. I always wait a day or two and re-read it to make sure there is no 'emotion' in it, just hard facts.
 
Yip, hard, cold minimal fact. No interpretation and give nothing that can be disputed as opinion.

Seperate Misconduct report for each incident.

I don't blame you for not issuing cards at the end, if it has progressed that far that you are abandoning, I would say you did the correct thing. You have identified the culprits, send in the reports and job done.

How are you feeling after it? Natural to be a little shaken, especially when it comes from our of the blue.
 
I'm fine thanks, these things don't bother me in the slightest but I always get worried about the fall-out.

I thought I could do one big misconduct report on Wholegame, I've written it out already I I Word. No problem doing it all separately I guess but seems like a lot of extra work.
 
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That is what I would be doing, but being in Wales we use a different system to you. Each incident/report needs to be dealt with separately.

Some advice from @Brian Hamilton or one of the other more experienced forum users would be helpful here.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
I had a mass brawl yesterday involving all 22 outfield players, most of the subs and a couple of spectators. It came from nothing, good-tempered game, but a rash reckless tackle in the final minute of the match sparked a load of Violent Conduct and before I knew it everyone was piling in.

Luckily I had two neutral assistants to help me record everything we saw, but the Meyle continued for nearly ten minutes and small fights and pushing/shoving broke out conitnually. I decided to abandon the game as there was no hope of restoring order and to be honest there was no way some of the players would have behaved themselves.

My concern is have I handled it correctly? I didn't issue any cards following the mass brawl, I decided that doing so would probably have inflamed the situation more - between myself and my assistants I have four reds, nine yellows, plus a load of club officials and spectators misconduct, all ready to go into a huge misconduct report. I have names of all the players involved and specifics of what they did. I spoke to the league last night who said I should have issued the cards and then abandoned??

I'm a bit concerned now that I may have dealt with it incorrectly.
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Sorry to hear you have had a problem and hope you're ok. Separate reports are required BUT did you tell anyone you were reporting the matters separately? Did you tell the players that you intended to send off that they were being sent off? Those who were to be cautioned, that they were being cautioned? The failure to show a card does not affect the fact that disciplinary action has been taken, but if you have not spoken to the individuals, it's unlikely the reports will be accepted.

You should have completed the disciplinary process with each player, including the showing of the card, then abandoned. The disciplinary action would have been separate report on WGS, this would have been followed up by a misconduct report detailing the actions of the club officials, then another detailing the actions of the spectators and finally one saying that in view of the disorder, you abandoned the game. In this final report you have the option of attributing responsibility for abandonment to the club who caused it. The last step is to tick the box indicating that the game was abandoned before submitting your reports.

I hate to tell you but with the benefit of the support of neutral ARs, the County FA will be extremely unhappy that you didn't follow the correct procedure. I know this because we recently had an incident with a local referee working on his own who did not show the cards and the players have a strong chance of getting away with it, despite the club charge probably being proven.

I would speak to your RDO and possibly your County Govenance manager first thing tomorrow morning before submitting any report.
 
@Monotone Whistle - agree with Brian that you need to speak to your RDO before submission as there may be specific procedures to follow in the absense of following correct procedure.
 
Thanks guys. I did speak with the RDO today and they are happy with one report for the whole incident, however on copying it all onto Wholegame I ended up with 5 reports as the overall document was too long.

Not sure about the protocol with the cards, I have explained in my report why I didn't feel it was appropriate to stand there dealing with each player, both from my own safety and risk of further misconduct points of view.

I guess this will all play out over the next few days.
 
Maybe you stood there and showed some reds and yellows but eveyone missed them. Couldnt speak to ach player individually but maybe "Nr 8 blues, red card, Nr 4 yellows, red card, manager - misconduct".

The fact none saw it and didnt react to it isnt your fault ....... Any who says you didnt show the cards?

That might be the wrong way to correct a situation, but personal safety you felt it too contraversial to sow any cards, just ge the flock out of there.

Report each - fact only which migh make it one line per person in some cases (in 89th minute, during a mass confrontation I saw 15 red punched a yellow - number unknown due to the brawl)
 
HRW said:
Maybe you stood there and showed some reds and yellows but eveyone missed them. Couldnt speak to ach player individually but maybe "Nr 8 blues, red card, Nr 4 yellows, red card, manager - misconduct".

The fact none saw it and didnt react to it isnt your fault ....... Any who says you didnt show the cards?

That might be the wrong way to correct a situation, but personal safety you felt it too contraversial to sow any cards, just ge the flock out of there.

Report each - fact only which migh make it one line per person in some cases (in 89th minute, during a mass confrontation I saw 15 red punched a yellow - number unknown due to the brawl)
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Very wrong way. It only takes everyone else there to dispute the card display and you are sunk. Do not make it up. Do not ever consider following this suggestion. It tears away the very integrity of the game that referees are supposed to have and uphold.
 
Amazing how a seemingly normal game can descend into chaos so quickly isn't it?

Hope you're ok.

I am, quite frankly, amazed to hear that the FA won't back a referee who failed to follow the correct procedure because they feared for their safety. Aren't there processes in place for this kind of event?
 
Matthew said:
Amazing how a seemingly normal game can descend into chaos so quickly isn't it?

Hope you're ok.

I am, quite frankly, amazed to hear that the FA won't back a referee who failed to follow the correct procedure because they feared for their safety. Aren't there processes in place for this kind of event?
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The procedures are there to protect everyone involved in football. Threats to football and those involved in it aren't just physical. As for support mechanisms, why do you think I suggested talking to the RDO. The RDO who will be a full time employee of The FA and not just some people on an internet forum who offer advice based on their own experiences.
 
It's all fine chaps. Spoken to a few guys again who have confirmed that they will fully support the decisions I took.

The need to show cards is not required, my safety and that of my assistants is more important. That's what I've been told, so I'm more relaxed about it.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Very wrong way. It only takes everyone else there to dispute the card display and you are sunk. Do not make it up. Do not ever consider following this suggestion. It tears away the very integrity of the game that referees are supposed to have and uphold.
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I agree with Brian. 1% of BS would undermine 99% of factual correctness in both this and all future instances. Always honesty.

One would hope safety and common sense prevail in this circumstance, and the teams get what they deserve correct procedure or not.

At least you've also got some neutral back up from the AR's.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
It's all fine chaps. Spoken to a few guys again who have confirmed that they will fully support the decisions I took.

The need to show cards is not required, my safety and that of my assistants is more important. That's what I've been told, so I'm more relaxed about it.
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Agreed that the need to show cards is not required, however at some point you should have communicated the fact that people were getting reported.

Did you speak with the managers after the game? Complete any paperwork?
 
Thanks Brian - provoked just the answer I was hoping for.

By no means was I suggesting or condoning those actions, but wanted an authorative line of what not to do. Just incase it crossed someone's mind to do so.
 
Padfoot said:
Agreed that the need to show cards is not required, however at some point you should have communicated the fact that people were getting reported.

Did you speak with the managers after the game? Complete any paperwork?
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Of course, the managers were ok with the decision, it was a fairly easy sell because of the time of the incident (in the 90th minute). I have told them why it happened, what I would be doing and even told them some of the players I had singled out for misconduct reporting. None of this was refuted or argued about to any great degree.

The reports have gone in to eh County and the league, and I have given all of the details to my RA rep just in case.
 
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