A&H

Mental health

Hazzy said:
Thank you for all your replies. Reading them all one by one and will act accordingly.

Can anybody experienced give me examples of their opinion of offinabus vs dissent that they had in real games? Does the home team manager saying to your face “you’re a F***ing idiot” when you don’t give a decision constitute a red…or is that yellow for dissent?
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I'm actually having a semi-debate about that in another post. I was called a clown, on its own, not really a red card. But he ticked a lot of other boxes for me, that made it more than just the words, his actions. So I sent him off (he had walked a lot of distance to shout it in my face).

It is a combination of things. A manager calling me a F***ing idiot, crosses too many lines for me and is a red card. There could be mitigating factors like, you only just heard him and he was talking to his assistant etc. But for me it is direct, it is unfair. I would just have him removed.

If more of us do it consistently. It will happen less. I was 4th official recently, and the referee in the middle apparently had a reputation for having a very low dissent threshold. The manager was shouting at her and his assistant firmly said to him 'do not get her over here mate, she will book you'.

Everyone has their own tolerances and just play to your strengths. I'm usually fine, if players start saying things like 'there is two teams ref', I have a quick word with everyone on the next stop to cut it out and I let them know the consequences. "Calling the referee a cheat is a red card lads, so lets not do anything stupid today okay?". That is my approach and I am confident doing that.

Others will have a very different approach.
 
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Hazzy said:
Thank you for all your replies. Reading them all one by one and will act accordingly.

Can anybody experienced give me examples of their opinion of offinabus vs dissent that they had in real games? Does the home team manager saying to your face “you’re a F***ing idiot” when you don’t give a decision constitute a red…or is that yellow for dissent?
Click to expand...
I’m not one of the most “experienced” on here by an absolute country mile, but I have been reffing for at least four and a half years now so have seen my fair share of OFFINABUS vs dissent cases.

For me the phrase you quoted, particularly said in that manner with that exact wording, would be a sending off, particularly outside of top leagues and certainly at grassroots. As you’ll know, OFFINABUS stands for offensive, abusive or insulting - for me that would satisfy all three, though would only need to be one of them to constitute a red card. Firstly it’s directly addressed towards the referee - “you’re a f***ing idiot”. Secondly it’s likely to have been said in an aggressive manner if said directly to your face. Thirdly, I think the “idiot” part here is important, that is directly insulting and is only empowered by the swearing. I wouldn’t be sending off for someone calling me an idiot alone, or there’d be no players left on the pitch, but the two together combine to lead to the sending off.

As you referee you’ll find your own threshold for dissent and work out how best to manage players. Sometimes what you might have treated as dissent in one game might not warrant a sin bin in another game, purely because of the temperature of the game or temperament of the players. Generally as a rule I’d find something addressed directly to me more likely to fall under OFFINABUS. Taking your example “you’re a f***ing idiot” I’d likely be treating as OFFINABUS, though a player who exclaimed loudly “oh, for f**k sake” after I’d given a decision against them would likely find themselves in the sin bin.
 
Also to add, nobody would be surprised with you sending him off here. The way I think of it is.

If he said that to me, I would back pedal 10 yards from him, pull out the red. Then ask him to leave the vicinity, as you won't restart the game until he has left.

If he wanted to chat at full-time I would decline quoting respect is a two way thing.

Possibly call the league ref appointment sec to chat it through with him also if you two have that kind of relationship (could be a good opportunity to develop one). They are usually great, and it is good to let them know you've had a few tough games. They tend to have behaviour scores and they know the league. So they might try to make sure you get well behaved teams for a few weeks.
 
If you’re comfortable sharing, could you provide some specific examples of the insults you have been subjected to during games? I think hearing about your personal experiences could really help me, and perhaps others, set our own thresholds and prepare for similar situations.

I appreciate your openness and thank you in advance for your contributions.
 
Hazzy said:
Thank you for all your replies. Reading them all one by one and will act accordingly.

Can anybody experienced give me examples of their opinion of offinabus vs dissent that they had in real games? Does the home team manager saying to your face “you’re a F***ing idiot” when you don’t give a decision constitute a red…or is that yellow for dissent?
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Red every single day.
 
Hi Hazzy, I can’t offer much on the experience front as I’m a trainee too! But, huge kudos for going straight into OA. I decided to start with U14s, then move up through the ages every couple of games. This has been good (so far at least!) as I’ve been able to practice the basics like controlling the game, which way to point, what to write down, remembering all the different things you have to remember etc with only occasional, quite mild dissent which seems to fizzle out with a stern word.

As others have said, only you can decide if this is for you or not, but it’d be worth at least trying a few games with younger folk just to build your confidence back up. Good luck and go well!
 
Hazzy said:
Thank you for all your replies. Reading them all one by one and will act accordingly.

Can anybody experienced give me examples of their opinion of offinabus vs dissent that they had in real games? Does the home team manager saying to your face “you’re a F***ing idiot” when you don’t give a decision constitute a red…or is that yellow for dissent?
Click to expand...

This for me is a red every time. Other posters have outlined the reasons well, but one thing I haven't seen is that the manager has a higher degree of responsibility. You could say the captain has as well, which i believe is actually written in the LOTG, iirc.

But for a manager, red every time.
 
Forgive me for being blunt, but you are going to get dissent (sometimes a ridiculous amount), you are going to get challenging situations through no fault of your own and you are going to get loads of things wrong. You will overthink these both before and after games in your first season or two of refereeing OA football. Every time you referee bigger games you will be wary of that and you will be challenged further. You will continue to make mistakes and reflect on what you'd do next time.

It is all normal and it is inevitable. This is far amplified for those that didn't play OA football, as this gives experience of being on an OA pitch and knowing that whinging at the ref and just general poor behaviour is just part of low level football. It's not personal, every ref gets stick!

But always remember that in your first year or two of OA football you're doing the lowest level OA football possible. Everyone is on that pitch because that's their level. It's vital experience for a referee to go through it all. In 2 seasons time you'll be so much better you won't recognise yourself. It will all become water of a ducks back. Where the manager is giving you abuse because you messed up is effecting you now, in far less games that you'd think you'll just either find it amusing or you'll just give him whatever card he deserves and crack on without giving it a second thought. It's just what football at that level sometimes is. You'll make mistakes and it won't effect you much at all because there's so many made on those pitches by everyone there and you realise that's just football.

I read about people's coping mechanisms and whilst they may benefit some people, to me they're sideshows. The best coping mechanism by a million miles and the only truly effective one is experience. Soon you'll have 50 or 100 games under your belt and that's your coping mechanism. Every game will just be another game that may either go well (most will with experience) or it might go badly. But nobody will die & dog & duck football isn't important enough to effect you in any way.

Experiencing difficulty is imperative & necessary. Every tough situation & mistake is money in the bank to you. The only way to improve is to go through the crap time & time again. Youll be amazed at the results & you'll be proud of yourself in time.
 
Hazzy said:
If you’re comfortable sharing, could you provide some specific examples of the insults you have been subjected to during games? I think hearing about your personal experiences could really help me, and perhaps others, set our own thresholds and prepare for similar situations.

I appreciate your openness and thank you in advance for your contributions.
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I think the point is, none of us can really remember specific OFFINABUS, as it’s just another part of the game that we deal with. It would be like asking me to describe the specific challenge that led to me sending off a goalkeeper last August - I’m not sure I could remember every detail.

The last time I sent off for OFFINABUS was actually because of something one player said to another. Players were pushing a bit in the penalty area at a corner. I had a word to try to calm them down. I walk away and they’re back at it. Attacking player turns around and screams at the defender “you f***ing ginger c***”. Straight red card there. Possibly a bit of a mismanaged situation on my part, but a complete overreaction from the attacking player too. He’d already been sin binned for dissent at one point, though I can’t remember what he’d said or done.

The last time I cautioned for dissent was because a player audibly called me a “tw*t” after I’d given him a caution for SPA. I could’ve sold it as OFFINABUS if I’d really wanted to, but the game up until that point was quite calm and it was said more out of frustration than anything. So it was one of those weird situations where I had to show him two cautions in the space of a minute, but not send him off, only sin bin him. Trying to then explain that to players and managers really isn’t helpful.
 
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Had it today with a pen for handball. GK runs up shouting it's the same as an earlier hb I didn't give (arm natural position) and is raging. Basically I give him a yellow for USB and then, 20 secs later, sin bin as he is still going on about my 'mistake' This despite engaging captain to calm him down
 
I would add, there are many decisions on a football pitch which are given which are not right or wrong, just an opinion of the referee from their viewpoint.

The referee is the independent arbitrator, often the only person in the ground capable of making a neutral decision.

I’m not saying you are, but don't imagine any decision you make which is questioned by a player/coach is wrong, that is the football culture that ‘you undermine the referee by getting in his/her head for your future benefit’.

A better way of assessing your match performance, is did you give yourself the best chance of making a good decision by your positioning?

I look back at my performance & only reflect on; could I have been closer to play or got myself a better angle? Unless you have VAR you will never know if your decision could have been wrong, most decisions are subjective.

In summary don’t worry about any perceived mistakes, just focus on improving your process, positioning, body language etc.

Good luck & stay positive in refereeing or without refereeing.
 
cooperd5 said:
Had it today with a pen for handball. GK runs up shouting it's the same as an earlier hb I didn't give (arm natural position) and is raging. Basically I give him a yellow for USB and then, 20 secs later, sin bin as he is still going on about my 'mistake' This despite engaging captain to calm him down
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I don't understand the caution for usb... Reads like it was dissent from the off and usb is off the table.
 
@Hazzy this sounds awful. From what I understand, reffing is more of a vocation, a passion, rather than about the money, so if things don't improve then it might be best to give up on it. I certainly wouldn't want to take relentless abuse for anything, whether paid or not.

Hope the situation improves for you.
 
I used to fret about mistakes I knew I had made after the game but over time I learnt to reflect and reduce these type of incidents. It really healped me by running the line and seeing how more experienced refs operated. Lastly, use the tools in your pocket with confidence, players earn cards, you just give them out.
 
Generally speaking, I agree with @Ben448844 that mental resilience improves over time (games under the belt)
However, some, if not all of us, must start at the right level of stress (youth games or appropriately gentle OA appointments) with gradual progression. Otherwise, drop-out is inevitable.

I had a bit of a stressful interaction/confrontation yesterday as it happens. I did ruminate about it a bit, but was able to park it just because I've done 7 seasons and am somewhat hardy. My strategy is change my relationship with that event such that I view it as a game, rather then an interpersonal conflict. Ultimately, I welcomed the stress of the incident because it gave me an opportunity to consider what went well from my perspective, but also strategies to manage future recurrences more effectively. I drew some conclusions to 'improve my game' and was able to forget about it as 'in my mind, It's a just a game that I'm trying to perfect'. Of course, it's not that easy as we are human at the end of the day, but that's the way I try to think about the stress involved. I kinda welcome and relish it, within reason.
 
Coming in to this late but this is really normal, I didn't qualify until I was 24 because I knew I couldn't hack it mentally until then and going straight into OA sunday league in South London was still hard.

I can echo advice on a mentor, time/experience, etc

Another big one for me was seeing it more as a job that I mostly enjoy rather than a sport like it was when I was playing, so the players/coaches aren't there to be my friends or opponents. If they're nice to me, great, but if they don't like me it doesn't matter. I don't need their approval, all I want is to manage their behaviour best I can during the game to avoid dissent getting out of hand. So I'm nice and friendly off the pitch but firm on the laws and procedures around the game and I won't really banter with someone to try and diffuse low level dissent. They get a short answer the first few times, then a warning, then a sin bin. If you try and make them like you, it's a losing battle because they want you to call everything their way and eventually you'll have to subvert that expectation.

It doesn't get me many drinks after the game but I get more hand shakes and way less grief. Some games descend into chaos still, had 12 yellows (3 sin bins) the other week, but it's definitely smoother than when I started.

If you were near me I'd offer to come and watch a game but sadly a bit far! Hope you're able to find someone to come along to a few of your games.
 
DazN said:
I’ve recently taken a break myself as I’ve largely fallen out of love with the sport due to the general behaviour of players, parents and fans. I’ll continue to referee my sons team’s games if we don’t get an appointed referee but I really don’t know if I want the stress anymore.

Coincidentally I’ve just taken my cricket umpiring course and if the summer goes well I might just stick to that.
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Cricketers are not as obnoxious as footballers, but they can be just as withering.

It can get very quiet and lonely on a cricket field. You can hear what is being is said in the minds of the players before the skipper says 'he'll get the next one lads'.
 
Ben448844 said:
Forgive me for being blunt, but you are going to get dissent (sometimes a ridiculous amount), you are going to get challenging situations through no fault of your own and you are going to get loads of things wrong. You will overthink these both before and after games in your first season or two of refereeing OA football. Every time you referee bigger games you will be wary of that and you will be challenged further. You will continue to make mistakes and reflect on what you'd do next time.

It is all normal and it is inevitable. This is far amplified for those that didn't play OA football, as this gives experience of being on an OA pitch and knowing that whinging at the ref and just general poor behaviour is just part of low level football. It's not personal, every ref gets stick!

But always remember that in your first year or two of OA football you're doing the lowest level OA football possible. Everyone is on that pitch because that's their level. It's vital experience for a referee to go through it all. In 2 seasons time you'll be so much better you won't recognise yourself. It will all become water of a ducks back. Where the manager is giving you abuse because you messed up is effecting you now, in far less games that you'd think you'll just either find it amusing or you'll just give him whatever card he deserves and crack on without giving it a second thought. It's just what football at that level sometimes is. You'll make mistakes and it won't effect you much at all because there's so many made on those pitches by everyone there and you realise that's just football.

I read about people's coping mechanisms and whilst they may benefit some people, to me they're sideshows. The best coping mechanism by a million miles and the only truly effective one is experience. Soon you'll have 50 or 100 games under your belt and that's your coping mechanism. Every game will just be another game that may either go well (most will with experience) or it might go badly. But nobody will die & dog & duck football isn't important enough to effect you in any way.

Experiencing difficulty is imperative & necessary. Every tough situation & mistake is money in the bank to you. The only way to improve is to go through the crap time & time again. Youll be amazed at the results & you'll be proud of yourself in time.
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