Ref4Me

"Mine!"

TomThompson

New Member
I've played in a few games where/when a player has shouted "Mine" to declare his intension to play the ball, and the referee has then stopped the game and awarded a free kick. These decisions have been greeted without complaint or dissent. But reading the laws I wonder what infringement has occurred? "Verbally distracts an opponent" perhaps - listed as unsporting behaviour.

If "Verbally distracts" is the offence then I would then expect a call of "Mine" to be an infringement only if an opponent is close enough to challenge for the ball. If the call is only to warn a teammate, and no opposition players are proximate, it cannot be a distraction. This is not how I have witnesses these situations.
 
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OIREF!

RefChat Addict
This has been discussed many times in this forum. Your interpretation is correct, if there is no distraction then there is no offence.
 

TomThompson

New Member
So my second point is..."Verbally distracting" is listed only once in the laws, under "cautions for unsporting behaviour". So, the actual offense is "unsporting behaviour", the detail is "verbal distraction", the sanction is a yellow/caution, and the restart is a IFK. By the letter of the law (if in play and no advantage) play is stopped for the purposes of administering a caution for UB. I find this very harsh.
In actual execution of this part of the law I have never seen a caution given.
 

richard ramjane

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
So my second point is..."Verbally distracting" is listed only once in the laws, under "cautions for unsporting behaviour". So, the actual offense is "unsporting behaviour", the detail is "verbal distraction", the sanction is a yellow/caution, and the restart is a IFK. By the letter of the law (if in play and no advantage) play is stopped for the purposes of administering a caution for UB. I find this very harsh.
In actual execution of this part of the law I have never seen a caution given.
ive seen the IFK awarded, but never seen a caution as a result...usually the ref will 'educate' the players and that will be the end of it...
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
As @OIREF! mentions, this has been discussed a few times. Technically, this isn't a foul and play shouldn't stop UNLESS you're stopping play to give a caution. And if that's the case, the restart is an IFK.

I think it's fair to describe this as one of the more misunderstood laws in the game - partly down to player expectations and the myth that any call of "Mine" is illegal and partly because many people will have seen a referee give a FK without the caution for it.
 

TomThompson

New Member
ive seen the IFK awarded, but never seen a caution as a result...usually the ref will 'educate' the players and that will be the end of it...

The way I read the law - I quote - "a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour". That's what the book says. There seems to be no room in the law for a ref to stop a game for unsporting behaviour (for any reason !) without a caution. UB=caution, plain and simple.

It would open a can of worms to try to soften this by defining scales of UB, as is done with fouls graded into careless/reckless/excessive. But that is how "Mine!" is treated - as "careless" UB; as UB without a caution. I looked back over another thread addressing the verbal distraction in a broader scope. A contributor used the word "deliberately". Again, this was trying to distinguish cautionable an non-cautionable UB. But it is not in the laws.

BTW when, as you say, refs will 'educate' players on this matter, I wonder what wisdom is passed over. From what I can tell, players universally think 'the rule is you can't say "mine" or "leave" '.
 

richard ramjane

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
BTW when, as you say, refs will 'educate' players on this matter, I wonder what wisdom is passed over. From what I can tell, players universally think 'the rule is you can't say "mine" or "leave" '.[/QUOTE]
yep, im speaking from a playing viewpoint as ive never had a situation as a ref where the call of mine, or Steve's, or leave it etc, has affected an opponent.
the times ive witnessed it as a player have been few and far between, and on each occasion our official has blown, awarded IFK and spoken to the player, which generally gets a response along the lines of "oh i never knew that"
i totally agree with you about the misconception of what you can or cannot call, i currently play with people who have been playing for most of their adult life and they STILL dont know...
 

TomThompson

New Member
ive never had a situation as a ref where the call of mine, or Steve's, or leave it etc, has affected an opponent.
Richard,
I played for many years with a defender (a mate) who used shout "Name?!" when he was going for a header but was worried a teammate might also be playing it without a verbal claim. Needless to say, in the few milliseconds between his "invitation" and the ball arriving, no one called a response as we had left it to him. His hesitation meant he would fail to connect and the outcome was almost always a goal to the opposition.
I used to pray the ref would blow for verbally distracting...himself !
 

richard ramjane

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Richard,
I played for many years with a defender (a mate) who used shout "Name?!" when he was going for a header but was worried a teammate might also be playing it without a verbal claim. Needless to say, in the few milliseconds between his "invitation" and the ball arriving, no one called a response as we had left it to him. His hesitation meant he would fail to connect and the outcome was almost always a goal to the opposition.
I used to pray the ref would blow for verbally distracting...himself !
hahaha, a defender that didnt like heading :rolleyes: i do hope you always had a laugh about it in the bar after... i had (have) a mate like that won't challenge in the air as he does'nt like his hair getting messed up ! :)
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Stopping play and giving an IDFK without cautioning would be 100% incorrect in law.
As has been said, if you stop play for someone shouting mine you can only do so if you believe they verbally distracted an opponent, and you are stopping play to issue a caution.

I used to have this against me when I played, and I see it loads when I'm assessing. One of the biggest myths in football.
 

CapnBloodbeard

RefChat Addict
It would open a can of worms to try to soften this by defining scales of UB, as is done with fouls graded into careless/reckless/excessive. But that is how "Mine!" is treated - as "careless" UB; as UB without a caution. .

I think you're overthinking it and confusing yourself. There's no such thing as USB without a caution. USB is a caution.

Thus, stopping play for this falls under the 'stops play for any other reason to issue a card' category. Find me a clause in the LOTG which permits an IFK for anything like this without a caution and I will....well, I'll do absolutely nothing. But try it :)

ive seen the IFK awarded, but never seen a caution as a result...usually the ref will 'educate' the players and that will be the end of it...
That's called 'making it up'. And if one of those players is on a single card by the end of the match then the referee has now committed a serious, match changing error as the player should have been sent off for a second caution. It's a grievous error and perpetuates a misunderstanding amongst players - which can actually cause major arguments on the field!
Too many referees give an IFK for this.
 

shorty

New Member
I've had players complain about not putting a name on it in every adult game I've refereed in the past two weeks I've been back. I thought this myth was finally going away, but it appears it may be getting worse in my part of the world. My retort is usually "that's a myth - it's only an offence if it distracts an opponent, and if so, it requires a caution" and that works fairly well. If the conversation continues, it usually then turns to "last week's ref", and this forum has already discussed strategies for dealing with that appeal ad nauseam. If the conversation instead takes the turn of "you're wrong", or "you have no idea", some sort of card comes out at that point.

Only one player who appealed for it said "ref, but it distracted us" - so at least one individual had some understanding of the Laws, even if they were outright lying about any distraction.

The IFK cannot be awarded on its own, as there is no indirect free kick offence for verbally distracting an opponent. The IFK is only given because play is stopped for a cautionable offence and the restart for unsporting behaviour for verbally distracting an opponent is not prescribed elsewhere in the Laws. If there's no caution, there are no grounds to stop play in the first place.
 

SydTheAussieRef

Level 4 Ref (youth). Just starting out.
I've cautioned someone before for Verbally Distracting. But it was a defender yelling loudly 'he is going to miss' when a attacker was taking a penalty kick.
 

shorty

New Member
Yeah I have too plenty of times for things like that, or someone running up behind an attacker on a through ball and shouting leave it and then the player leaves it, or calling for the ball from the other team.

I definitely haven't done it for a player simply saying "mine" or "leave it" when they're caught in the same space as a teammate.
 

richard ramjane

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee

ive seen the IFK awarded, but never seen a caution as a result...usually the ref will 'educate' the players and that will be the end of it...
That's called 'making it up'. And if one of those players is on a single card by the end of the match then the referee has now committed a serious, match changing error as the player should have been sent off for a second caution. It's a grievous error and perpetuates a misunderstanding amongst players - which can actually cause major arguments on the field!
Too many referees give an IFK for this.

agreed, just to clarify, its not me doing this, ive just seen it happening :)
 

TomThompson

New Member
My comment:
It would open a can of worms to try to soften this by defining scales of UB, as is done with fouls graded into careless/reckless/excessive. But that is how "Mine!" is treated - as "careless" UB; as UB without a caution. .

CapnBloodbeard Response:
I think you're overthinking it and confusing yourself. There's no such thing as USB without a caution. USB is a caution..

Capn,
I can only infer that you failed to read the line directly before the extract you quoted: it read "UB=caution, plain and simple" , else you would not have effectively quoted it back at me in order to put me straight. Erm - I said it first.

The point I was making in terms of "scales of UB" relates to observing, not (over)thinking as in some pointless mind experiment. The fact is, so repetitively stated throughout the thread, that the offence is regularly punished with a IFK and no caution. I speculated as to why it "is treated" so by people not me
 

shorty

New Member
I speculated as to why it "is treated" so by people not me

The only answer I can think of is that they don't know the Laws and think it's an offence because referees have always given it and players have always asked for it. The lack of knowledge beyond the basics is quite astounding at the lower levels of the game (which is also where the vast majority of referees are located).
 
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