A&H

World Cup NGA FRA (GK off line)

Pffetic. The keeper's heel only leaves the line when the France player's kicking leg is already on the downswing:

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Even as the penalty taker connects with it, she's barely off the line:

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Given the way that strikers stutter, vary their run ups, and can vary the amount of backswing, or even which foot they kick with, how's a keeper expected to anticipate and work with all that?
 
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frank_ref said:
Pffetic. The keeper's heel only leaves the line when the France player's kicking leg is already on the downswing:

View attachment 3532

Even as the penalty taker connects with it, she's barely off the line:

View attachment 3533

Given the way that strikers stutter, vary their run ups, and can vary the amount of backswing, or even which foot they kick with, how's a keeper expected to anticipate and work with all that?
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By not leaving the line until the kick is happening, like the laws say. Heck, now they even get an allowance of an entire step to make up for stutter and variation, so the laws have got softer.
Is it also really so hard to acknowledge that this should not be easy or fair on the goalkeeper anyway? It's a goram penalty kick - they're not given for insufficient exchange of pleasantry or too limp a handshake before the match.
 
For some light relief, how about this pearler from one of the BBC's team of 'experts' - an ex player btw

'Not sure why GK cautioned there, perhaps the ref told her before the game she would be booking for coming off off the line':eek:

Where to start with that?!

Putting aside the ignorance of the laws, does she really think that referees individually decide what laws they will enforce and how on a match by match basis?!

And of course, the other 'expert' and presenter didn't correct her or express any incredulity about the remark!

Yes it was the correcr decsion x 2 plus the cautions were correct of course, but from time of foul to Nigeria kicking off was EIGHT minutes!
 
Nij said:
Heck, now they even get an allowance of an entire step to make up for stutter and variation, so the laws have got softer.
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Is that strictly true?

Say the kicker stutters and the keeper comes one step off the line, is that still permitted when the kick is taken? Or does it mean, they can take one step but still have to keep a foot on the line?


I raise it because, the 'one step' part is an explanation, and not written into the Laws itself. So next season, when that explanation for change vanishes, we won't have that as guidance and the law would only say:

When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, or in line with, the goal line.

Going from that, my inkling is that the latter version is correct; One step simply means taking one foot off the line to 'step' forward or whatever and leaving the other foot on the line.
 
RobOda said:
Is that strictly true?

Say the kicker stutters and the keeper comes one step off the line, is that still permitted when the kick is taken? Or does it mean, they can take one step but still have to keep a foot on the line?


I raise it because, the 'one step' part is an explanation, and not written into the Laws itself. So next season, when that explanation for change vanishes, we won't have that as guidance and the law would only say:

When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, or in line with, the goal line.

Going from that, my inkling is that the latter version is correct; One step simply means taking one foot off the line to 'step' forward or whatever and leaving the other foot on the line.
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The law change this year went from feet on the line to a foot on (or over the line). I suggested when it happened that it might presage stricter enforcement of the law, just as it did when they moved from have to be stationary to can move laterally. I did not imagine that the strictness would be in the 2 inch range on missed PKs.

I don't have a problem saying we are going to more strictly enforce this (though it is ludicrous to have the enforcement of a couple of inches through VAR also sanctioned by a USB caution). But by using VAR and not the AR, we are saying essentially that we are going to enforce at a level that is more than human perception of the AR. In other words, we're holding the GK to monitor herself to a standard that even the AR can't determine. This is, IMO, even crazier than the 6" OS calls that can only be found by two minutes of scrutiny of stop frames.

The game has always had (or, I guess I should say used to have) a concept of trifling offenses that don't warrant sanctions. Until now I think the GK infraction here would have been a classroom example of a trifling offense. Is this really taking the game where we want it to be?
 
Is coming off your line a mandatory caution for a keeper? I can't find it in the book and it seems pretty harsh. Retake is easily punishment enough.
Also the caution for the original foul was nonsense. Is that a caution anywhere else on the pitch? This horrible idea that any foul in the box must be a caution is a pet hate.
Maybe I'm being harsh but the ref wanted to appear very busy IMO. A horrible trait that some countries' refs still seem to think is good refereeing.
 
deusex said:
Is coming off your line a mandatory caution for a keeper? I can't find it in the book and it seems pretty harsh. Retake is easily punishment enough.
Also the caution for the original foul was nonsense. Is that a caution anywhere else on the pitch? This horrible idea that any foul in the box must be a caution is a pet hate.
Maybe I'm being harsh but the ref wanted to appear very busy IMO. A horrible trait that some countries' refs still seem to think is good refereeing.
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From the IFAB app, law 14 says:
the goalkeeper or a team-mate offends:

if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded

if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence
 
The keeper getting a caution for coming off of their line and causing a retake was definitely in one of the recent law updates, don't remember it being taken out
 
RobOda said:
Is that strictly true?

Say the kicker stutters and the keeper comes one step off the line, is that still permitted when the kick is taken? Or does it mean, they can take one step but still have to keep a foot on the line?


I raise it because, the 'one step' part is an explanation, and not written into the Laws itself. So next season, when that explanation for change vanishes, we won't have that as guidance and the law would only say:

When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, or in line with, the goal line.

Going from that, my inkling is that the latter version is correct; One step simply means taking one foot off the line to 'step' forward or whatever and leaving the other foot on the line.
Click to expand...
I think the stuttering is a definite area where problems will occur. The point of the stuttered run-up is to deceive the GK. If this works, the GK may well have taken a step forward, be off the line and therefore give the striker free range to miss and expect to get another go.

Given that having to halt your dive because you've been tricked into going early is already a disadvantage, penalising the GK again for falling for this feels too harsh. But without provision in the laws for the referee to us their own judgement, or a specific provision exempting GK's who have been tricked into moving early, I don't see how it won't be given in future.
 
Let's be absolutely clear with one thing here. A goalkeeper being about 3 centimetres off the line as the ball is kicked absolutely can NOT impact the attacker's taking of the kick. The minute amount of time and tiny distance involved just makes that pretty much impossible as the foot is already moving towards the ball and almost at the point of making contact.

Sorry, but the people making these decisions, or probably more likely their bosses, just don't understand the game of football. They might understand the laws, but not the game itself.
 
RobOda said:
Is that strictly true?

Say the kicker stutters and the keeper comes one step off the line, is that still permitted when the kick is taken? Or does it mean, they can take one step but still have to keep a foot on the line?
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As long as they still have one foot on the line when the kick is taken (or over it, if they jumped, unlikely in this situation but still possible) they're fine. Once that second foot leaves the line, they're liable for a retake and USB caution if it's not a goal.


I raise it because, the 'one step' part is an explanation, and not written into the Laws itself. So next season, when that explanation for change vanishes, we won't have that as guidance and the law would only say:

When the ball is kicked, the defending goalkeeper must have at least part of one foot touching, or in line with, the goal line.

Going from that, my inkling is that the latter version is correct; One step simply means taking one foot off the line to 'step' forward or whatever and leaving the other foot on the line.
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The explanation will still exist, it has no more force in law now than it will next year. This year it's been included only because people don't yet know - next year they'll have had an entire season to learn the new law, which should be more than enough (it won't be, but that's because people are stubborn and/or lazy, and won't read the laws or care that they've changed).
The law only specifies what one foot must do, nothing about the second foot. So I don't see it as a problem to have placed a foot off the line now, and it shouldn't be seen as an issue in the future.
GraemeS said:
I think the stuttering is a definite area where problems will occur. The point of the stuttered run-up is to deceive the GK. If this works, the GK may well have taken a step forward, be off the line and therefore give the striker free range to miss and expect to get another go.

Given that having to halt your dive because you've been tricked into going early is already a disadvantage, penalising the GK again for falling for this feels too harsh. But without provision in the laws for the referee to us their own judgement, or a specific provision exempting GK's who have been tricked into moving early, I don't see how it won't be given in future.
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The goalkeeper shouldn't have fallen for the trick and breached the law, then.
Either they're proactive on the expected shot and move early or they're reactive to the actual shot and go at the same time.
Can't have it both ways - this is a problem of coaching players to push the boundaries and denial that the PK is not meant to be fair. They take the risk, they might get the reward, but they might also get the wrong end of the stick. It ain't a pic'n'mix bin.
 
deusex said:
Also the caution for the original foul was nonsense. Is that a caution anywhere else on the pitch? This horrible idea that any foul in the box must be a caution is a pet hate.
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It's a caution because it would be DOGSO.
 
Women's World Cup, U21 WC, VAR centre stage. No sport should have the referee take the podium

I get the 'off the line' thing with the keepers. However, let's see if it survives the test of the Champions League. The game will go on forever
 
frank_ref said:
Not to mention the number of goalkeepers that are going to be dismissed.

I think this is perhaps the worst rule change I've ever seen.
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Separate the law change from the application of VAR. The law change permits the GK to be off the line more than the old law did--until the new laws, both feet were supposed to be on the line (though it was never enforced that way). It is the use of VAR to super strictly enforce that is the issue. I suspect that with time the PL decision not to use it on GK encroachment is going to carry the day.
 
socal lurker said:
I suspect that with time the PL decision not to use it on GK encroachment is going to carry the day.
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And if this is the case goal keeper encroachment is going to be an even bigger issue than it ever was now the their position at the time the ball is kicked is even more relaxed than before.

For me this is like a vaccination shot. It's painful to start with and makes you a little sick for a short while but your future is protected.
 
We don't need to use VAR to manage this--it results in the absurd calls that are too close. What we need is for FIFA to tell ARs and Rs that they expect it enforced, and downgrade refs that don't. If that is the consequence, refs and ARs will call it. Hopefully the PL will lead the way with that model. That won't get us to the precision of VAR, but the game doesn't need that hyper precision--it needs GKs not way out there on PKs. If an AR can't tell the second foot is off, we shouldn't be punishing GKs.
 
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