A&H

Positioning first half compared to second half..

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Quick question I’ve had this every single game so far (8) I’m going to explain this the best I can, I Referee the first half taking up a certain position on the pitch looking at the pitch in a certain way getting used to my surroundings and which way both teams are shooting, everything’s fine and feels normal..

Right second half I start walking towards centre of pitch & all of a sudden everything feels different the teams have switched & for some strange reason I can’t just slot straight back into the same position again & for some reason everything looks different..

It’s bizarre it really is, it’s almost like I’m going back into player mode and thinking I need to switch halves or somethings changed, it’s almost like I’m playing for one of the teams and I’ve gotta move with them.

Please tell me this isn’t just me :wow:
 
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Cheers rusty.

Also if a player is on the floor and puts ball under both legs stopping anyone from getting it is that a direct free kick to opposing team? Had it on Sunday.
 
Ball trapped beneath a player is a dropped ball for me, although i can't recall where i read that
 
This question troubled me in my very early days. I don't think the answer is in the book. I'm sure i read some guidance elsewhere. I'll see if i can back it up
 
Can't find the guidance i read. There's some discussion here; http://asktheref.com/Soccer Rules/Question/3354/
It ain't specifically covered in the book, so i'd lean towards dropped ball partly for that reason. Unless there's intent or gamesmanship, I recall that the game should be stopped for the safety of the players and restarted with a dropped ball
 
Paul Sangster said:
Can't find the guidance i read. There's some discussion here; http://asktheref.com/Soccer Rules/Question/3354/
I recall that the game should be stopped for the safety of the players and restarted with a dropped ball
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Which then in turn puts there safety at risk again when you drop the ball & they proceed to kick lumps out of each other :D

On a serious note very interesting that there isn’t a clear rule on this, it does happen from time to time more so than some of the ridiculous scenarios that the big wigs dreamt up.
 
Paul Sangster said:
Ball trapped beneath a player is a dropped ball for me, although i can't recall where i read that
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Depends whether he is making any attempt to get off the ball. If he is I will give it a chance before stopping play, if not or if his attempts fail I will usually give an indirect free kick for playing in a dangerous manner. "Sorry mate, just trying to protect you and stop you getting the cr@p kicked out of you" will generally resolve any complaints, and there isn't really much grounds for giving a dropped ball.
 
Men in Black said:
Also if a player is on the floor and puts ball under both legs stopping anyone from getting it is that a direct free kick to opposing team? Had it on Sunday.
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You only stop play if it becomes a safety issue (as Rusty said, give it a second or two) or if it denies the opponents a fair chance of playing the ball without injuring the opponent (well that's also safety). It is covered in law (in generic form) as providing a safe environment and matches or under "playing in a dangerous manner". Its a YHTBT for the restart but here is my rule of thumb.

1. If no opponents are plying/attempting to play the ball for fear of injury and the ball under legs was accidental and he is trying to move away then the restart is dropped ball. This would be very rare.
2. If opponents are playing/attempting to play the ball and the ball under legs was accidental and he is trying to move away then the restart is IFK to player on ground.
3. If the ball under legs was not accidental or the player on the ground is playing/attempting to play the ball then the restart is IFK to opponents.
4. In cases of 2 or 3 if there is contact then restart become a DFK.
 
Well summarised. We do need to be aware of the fact that sometimes the ball appears under the legs. That's fine - you don't penalise a player for falling over. You need to give them a reasonable chance to release the ball.
As one pointed out - sometimes the player simply can't get up or release the ball from the actions of the opponents. That would mean the opponents are the ones acting dangerously.
Of course, always look out for other elements too - the player on the ground may kick the ball with studs showing in a risky manner, for instance. Or be mindful of overly aggressive kicks from the players standing.
If, on the other hand, the player actually made a clearly and deliberate action to smother the ball - say, ball was beside them and they blatantly covered it with their legs, you could consider a card for USB (in fact, under the old Q&A, anything we're discussing here was a card). Never seen that happen though.

I've had the occasional instance where the player was on the ground and the ball was sort of under them as they were getting up, or very close to their body, and I just felt that there was no way this situation was going to resolve itself without somebody committing a foul. So I award a DB instead.

I've only done it in juniors or fairly low grade games. I think at a higher grade they should be able to handle the outcome. Some may disagree there.
I've only done it a couple of times.
 
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While I hear the Captain's call to give time to release the ball, any time is asking for an opposition player to wade in, slide in etc.

As said above, this is an IDFK to the opposition 99 times out if 100. And, if the ball is remotely within playing distance - and players are within kicking distance - blow fast. Stop the game. Because IMHO you might be stopping 10-15 acts of VC or mass cons out of those 99 ;)
 
Men in Black said:
Quick question I’ve had this every single game so far (8) I’m going to explain this the best I can, I Referee the first half taking up a certain position on the pitch looking at the pitch in a certain way getting used to my surroundings and which way both teams are shooting, everything’s fine and feels normal..

Right second half I start walking towards centre of pitch & all of a sudden everything feels different the teams have switched & for some strange reason I can’t just slot straight back into the same position again & for some reason everything looks different..

It’s bizarre it really is, it’s almost like I’m going back into player mode and thinking I need to switch halves or somethings changed, it’s almost like I’m playing for one of the teams and I’ve gotta move with them.

Please tell me this isn’t just me :wow:
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On the positioning... Start by getting your kick off position correct. You should be in the same spot as the start of H1;)
And then don't overthink it. IMHO it's all about the diagonal. Skirt the edge of the centre circle when you can, don't go chasing down defenders with easy unchallenged possession... Use the general direction of the diagonal to get an angle on play, get side on to the drop of high balls...

And take your time with decisions to get the direction right. If you have ARs it also happens to them at the start of the 2H so give strong fingers/body tips and don't be shy about overruling;)
 
santa sangria said:
While I hear the Captain's call to give time to release the ball, any time is asking for an opposition player to wade in, slide in etc.

As said above, this is an IDFK to the opposition 99 times out if 100. And, if the ball is remotely within playing distance - and players are within kicking distance - blow fast. Stop the game. Because IMHO you might be stopping 10-15 acts of VC or mass cons out of those 99 ;)
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You have to give them a reasonable opportunity to release the ball / get off it - otherwise you're penalising them for falling over. I don't give them long. Sure, it may take a moment for them to figure out where the ball is, but if they haven't started making attempts to start 'unblocking' the ball within, say, a second, then they've had their chance.
Usually if there's a foul it's an IFK against the player on the ground, but not always.
 
santa sangria said:
On the positioning... Start by getting your kick off position correct. You should be in the same spot as the start of H1;)
And then don't overthink it. IMHO it's all about the diagonal. Skirt the edge of the centre circle when you can, don't go chasing down defenders with easy unchallenged possession... Use the general direction of the diagonal to get an angle on play, get side on to the drop of high balls...

And take your time with decisions to get the direction right. If you have ARs it also happens to them at the start of the 2H so give strong fingers/body tips and don't be shy about overruling;)
Click to expand...

Cheers for that something else I’m finding Aswell & this is really pissing me off, it’s a ball gets played forward you glance at Lino there is no flag u then put your eyes back on play & then b4 u know it you get a scream offside ref offside, u look back over and the flag is up.

Or another scenario your concentrating on play that you actually forget to look over & your reminded mid flow from one team offside ref offside that’s rather annoying on your own part.

Do u have a pre meditated process with through balls or long balls regarding checking the Lino’s flag?
 
one said:
You only stop play if it becomes a safety issue (as Rusty said, give it a second or two) or if it denies the opponents a fair chance of playing the ball without injuring the opponent (well that's also safety). It is covered in law (in generic form) as providing a safe environment and matches or under "playing in a dangerous manner". Its a YHTBT for the restart but here is my rule of thumb.

1. If no opponents are plying/attempting to play the ball for fear of injury and the ball under legs was accidental and he is trying to move away then the restart is dropped ball. This would be very rare.
2. If opponents are playing/attempting to play the ball and the ball under legs was accidental and he is trying to move away then the restart is IFK to player on ground.
3. If the ball under legs was not accidental or the player on the ground is playing/attempting to play the ball then the restart is IFK to opponents.
4. In cases of 2 or 3 if there is contact then restart become a DFK.
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Very good summary. I'd also add that there's a fairly high chance of handball when a player is "over" the ball - if he's not done all the necessary work to try and avoid making contact with his hand/arm, there's often a fairly uncontroversial handball call that you can make here that would then become a DFK.
Men in Black said:
Cheers for that something else I’m finding Aswell & this is really pissing me off, it’s a ball gets played forward you glance at Lino there is no flag u then put your eyes back on play & then b4 u know it you get a scream offside ref offside, u look back over and the flag is up.

Or another scenario your concentrating on play that you actually forget to look over & your reminded mid flow from one team offside ref offside that’s rather annoying on your own part.

Do u have a pre meditated process with through balls or long balls regarding checking the Lino’s flag?
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Unfortunately, the problem you have here is that the AR has done a good job and delayed their flag until the player actually commits an offside offence - it seems a little unfair to criticise a CAR for what is normally something that even an experienced NAR would struggle with!

The trick from the middle is the same as the trick when you're on the line - delay your flag/glance at AR until an offside offence may have actually been committed, rather than looking for it based purely off a ball towards a player in an offside position. I suspect that more experience on the line will help when you get back into the middle here, as you'll develop an innate understanding of why you would wait that split second longer before expecting a decision.

You can also help yourself as a ref by getting deep and wide - if you're in an absolutely perfect position, you'll be looking directly at play almost from the side, with your CAR in you peripheral view behind the players. That way, it won't even require a separate look, you'll simply see the flash of colour from a bright flag going up in the corner of your view anyway, which will alert you that you need to look more directly at the CAR.
 
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GraemeS said:
You can also help yourself as a ref by getting deep and wide - if you're in an absolutely perfect position, you'll be looking directly at play almost from the side, with your CAR in you peripheral view behind the players. That way, it won't even require a separate look, you'll simply see the flash of colour from a bright flag going up in the corner of your view anyway, which will alert you that you need to look more directly at the CAR.
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Good advice there. However there are times that your angle wont allow you seeing the AR in the background, the striker is through and a defender is hot on his heels or on his side shoulder to shoulder challenging for the ball. The worst thing you can do is to turn to look at your AR and take your eye off play. Don't give yourself any chance of missing a possible critical foul. You can look at your AR at a less critical time seconds later and bring play back for offside. He will keep his flag up if it was offside (that's what you should be telling him at pre-match).
 
(Maybe you can't expect this from CARs, I dunno, I don't have them...) but round my way, in lower div games with no buzzers or coms, every ref asks the ARs to shout if they are raising a flag behind them, out of view. I love that as a ref. And, as an AR, I shout loud and hard if I am flagging and I think there's the slightest chance my ref will not see.

Of course, as you do more games and work with more experienced and consistent ARs, you learn when and how to glance... And in the end it is your responsibility as ref to see the flag... But we are a team... Use all the help you can.

I work with so me very shy people (it's a bit of a cultural trait) so with young NARs I have even got the shouting my name before games for a bit of fun and so they are not "afraid" to do it in the match. Key line in pre-match for me is: "I want to hear about an offside flag first from you, not the players"!
 
As I have gained experience as a ref I’ve found myself developing the skill of looking up/across to the Lino when there is the possibility of offside. Great when working with NARs, but I have noticed that some CARS will see you look across at them and think you are expecting an offside so raise the flag. Can’t win ‘em all!
 
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