Mick.
RefChat Addict
No such thing as useless young referees, merely young referees who would benefit from more support an development than others.....surely?
Junior/Youth Pushing a player with force off the ball
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Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Nope.......they will remain useless until either the RA or the CFAs wake up to the fact that a 14 yr old kid doing the basic course needs careful monitoring and ongoing support instead of just chucking them out there.
Of course there is always an option for the referee to seek out support and guidance......
Once they have got the required support and guidance they may well cease to be useless......and become competent.
Mick.
RefChat Addict
Surely then that on that basis all refs, regardless of age are useless until they receive some guidance or monitoring? Seems a bit harsh. And also doesn't come across as particularly supportive, especially to the younger members of this forum.
We have enough pundits/players/coaches and other unenlightened people knocking us without our own colleagues doing too. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that more than anything is what this job is all about. In the opinion of this referee.
We have enough pundits/players/coaches and other unenlightened people knocking us without our own colleagues doing too. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that more than anything is what this job is all about. In the opinion of this referee.
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Disagree. The 14/15 yr olds are doing it for the money and have little or no interest in making sure they are doing the job properly.....as long as they get paid they don't care how they've performed.
The more seasoned new refs tend to be doing it for other reasons, so seem to be more motivated to have some sort of improvement in their own performance.
No point in blowing smoke up people's backsides.......doesn't do anyone any good.
Whilst that's partly true, it is a somewhat broad generalisation. A problem is that those 14/15 year olds don't get the mentoring the need, and thus do do it only for the money. The ones that I have seen mentored (by a friend or family member that is a ref) have broadly carried on and are progressing up the club-points ladder.
I agree.
To me, the biggest failing of the whole referee training process is that there is little, or no post qualification support. It would need trained mentors in good numbers to provide support.
Mick.
RefChat Addict
All 14/15 year olds? Seems a bit of a sweeping statement?
I'm not on about blowing smoke up peoples backsides I'm talking about not denigrating a colleague (regardless of ability). Would you slag off a ref at a match you were spectating? I know it's an old fashioned idea bit it sometimes works that if you have nothing nice to say, saying nothing is the better policy. Again, that is my opinion.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
I think @Padfoot does have a bit of a point, but it doesn't relate solely to young people, but all new refs in general.
I know this will depend on how individual CFAs handle the development of their shiny new referees, but from my experience aside from a 2 day course run by the CFA I have learnt much more from my RA, reading and participating in threads on here and doing my own research into good books to buy etc.
That's not to say my CFA/RDO didn't help me out, they did, but I had to be proactive in asking for help and advice, to the point that I reckon my RDO probably sighs and rolls his eyes when he see's my email address in his inbox, but as the saying goes, if you don't ask you don't get.
It does make me wonder, why when we're trying to recruit so many new referees, particularly those at the younger end of the age range, that so many RAs seem to be dying on their feet. My local RA branch has 13 members that regularly attend the monthly meetings and at 31 I'm by far the youngest.
It seems to me that RAs which don't try and engage with the younger refs are doing themselves a disservice, and if they can't bring in the younger members then their membership will dry up and they'll fold.
I guess the point of my rant is this:
1 - New referees aren't neceseraly getting adequate preparation for the role during their course;
2 - 1 RDO who has to look after hundreds of refs is going to struggle to support all of them, so perhaps more emphasis could be placed on where new refs can go to get information and learn to develop their abilities i.e. the RA
3 - The onus to improve has to be on the new referees, if they are pointed in the right directions but don't bother then that's thier problem;
4 - Some local RAs could do more to attract new referees, particularly the younger ones.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now. And apologies for going off topic.
I know this will depend on how individual CFAs handle the development of their shiny new referees, but from my experience aside from a 2 day course run by the CFA I have learnt much more from my RA, reading and participating in threads on here and doing my own research into good books to buy etc.
That's not to say my CFA/RDO didn't help me out, they did, but I had to be proactive in asking for help and advice, to the point that I reckon my RDO probably sighs and rolls his eyes when he see's my email address in his inbox, but as the saying goes, if you don't ask you don't get.
It does make me wonder, why when we're trying to recruit so many new referees, particularly those at the younger end of the age range, that so many RAs seem to be dying on their feet. My local RA branch has 13 members that regularly attend the monthly meetings and at 31 I'm by far the youngest.
It seems to me that RAs which don't try and engage with the younger refs are doing themselves a disservice, and if they can't bring in the younger members then their membership will dry up and they'll fold.
I guess the point of my rant is this:
1 - New referees aren't neceseraly getting adequate preparation for the role during their course;
2 - 1 RDO who has to look after hundreds of refs is going to struggle to support all of them, so perhaps more emphasis could be placed on where new refs can go to get information and learn to develop their abilities i.e. the RA
3 - The onus to improve has to be on the new referees, if they are pointed in the right directions but don't bother then that's thier problem;
4 - Some local RAs could do more to attract new referees, particularly the younger ones.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now. And apologies for going off topic.
Yep, all young people are bad blah blah blah, just in it for the money blah blah blah. Tell me something I haven't heard before and try getting rid of the stereotypes when you do it!
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
Not slag off....but I would voice an honest assessment of their performance, good and bad.
You don't do people any favours by glossing over the negative aspects of their game.
When the young people stop conforming to the stereotypes.....I'll stop highlighting it.
I can count on one hand the number of referees under the age of 18 that have I seen who take the job seriously and have sought to better themselves.
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CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
The yoof of today! They should all just get off Padfoot's lawn!!
DanCohen17
Simply The Best
Isn't it you who regularly gripes about young officials being fast-tracked at a crazy speed up to L4 & beyond?
Surely this is a counter-argument that doesn't make sense with the quoted post? (EDIT- contradictory, forgot the bloody word!) If they're being fast-tracked, they're being watched, assessed, mentored & coached and clearly not just in it for the money.
If they're in it for the money, they're not going to become L4's any time soon...so which is it Pad?
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
They're not fast tracking them from 14 are they?
The bulldozer tactics start generally around 17/18.......
DanCohen17
Simply The Best
Riiiiiight, so they go from 14-17 (is that right?) hating refereeing merely doing it for the money, never being watched/mentored/coached etc, to being 17-19(?) and now being watched every other game and fast-tracked through to FA NGS?
Padfoot
The Persecuted One
You know what they say about sarcasm?
Anyway.....a few may develop an serious interest in refereeing and they are the ones that are pushed along obscenely fast....with many falling flat on their face and having to drop back a level or even walk away from refereeing.
Interestingly there seems to be a bit of push on to recruit refs aged 19 or over at the minute......maybe someone's actually realised that a bit of maturity is required to learn the art of taking charge of 22 pissheads on a Sunday morning.....above that which is gained in the playground?
Is there that much money in refereeing for the young teens?!? I'm pretty much sure that there isn't? When I was that age, I certainly didn't think "Oh I need money, I know, I'll go and be a referee"...
It's unfair to criticise referee's because of their age. At such a young age, the majority are fragile and will need mentoring, that's obvious. Every 14 year old, regardless of whether they referee or not require that guidance. What they don't need is people on their backs voicing sterotypical opinions on them based around their age. The youngest referee I know is 16 years old and I rate him. He's not been through an academy, he does it because he wasn't very good at football... But, when I've watched him ref, he's done a good job. Lighten up on the kids, they're the future!
We had 3 x 16 year olds on the last NRC in October. When I asked why they wanted to referee, 2 said they were bored at the weekends, 1 said he tried playing football but couldn't get into a regular starting 11.
Each of them done very well in the qualifying assessment, which I'd arranged to be carried out on a local Sunday league mens derby game instead of the usual method down here of an assessed small sided game consisting of those on the course.
Back to the original post, I'd agree with @CapnBloodbeard 's original post
Pretty much sums up my thoughts.
It's unfair to criticise referee's because of their age. At such a young age, the majority are fragile and will need mentoring, that's obvious. Every 14 year old, regardless of whether they referee or not require that guidance. What they don't need is people on their backs voicing sterotypical opinions on them based around their age. The youngest referee I know is 16 years old and I rate him. He's not been through an academy, he does it because he wasn't very good at football... But, when I've watched him ref, he's done a good job. Lighten up on the kids, they're the future!
We had 3 x 16 year olds on the last NRC in October. When I asked why they wanted to referee, 2 said they were bored at the weekends, 1 said he tried playing football but couldn't get into a regular starting 11.
Each of them done very well in the qualifying assessment, which I'd arranged to be carried out on a local Sunday league mens derby game instead of the usual method down here of an assessed small sided game consisting of those on the course.
Back to the original post, I'd agree with @CapnBloodbeard 's original post
Pretty much sums up my thoughts.
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SydTheAussieRef
Level 4 Ref (youth). Just starting out.
Admin feel free to lock this. I'm finished discussing as the thread creator.
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