Real Vs Bayern

[Mooseybaby]

Pick the bones out of that one!

14 minutes added on time in the 2nd half, bucket loads of unpunished dissent, Real goal disallowed after VAR review for a push in the face, Real goal flagged for offside then given after another VAR review, players crowding referee to see VAR screen, cards shown to benches.

For the neutral it was dramatic late on, but not a good advert for the game.

 

[RustyRef]

Think the bigger issue is the AR flagging for an incredibly tight offside call and Bayern then putting the ball in the net. It probably was just about offside, but there is no way he should be flagging there.

 

[Runner Ref]

Looks like Real showed it all on their big screens as well!

 

[deusex]

Poor AR has absolutely thrown his team under the bus. Nothing more than a brain fart. Why oh why would you put that flag up there?
Will be quiet in the officials changing room!

 

[cwyeary]

Poor AR has absolutely thrown his team under the bus. Nothing more than a brain fart. Why oh why would you put that flag up there?
Will be quiet in the officials changing room!

There's something funny about the idea of Mike Riley being the UEFA referee observer tonight. As if the World Cup final crew who has had a rough night want to hear anything from him.

 

[es1]

It looks like it probably is offside and lunin didnt attempt to save it.

Uefa should absolutely be releasing the graphic from the semi automated offside tech though...I'll not hold my breath mind.

Ref is equally at fault here as well. Just don't blow.

 

[cwyeary]

It looks like it probably is offside and lunin didnt attempt to save it.

Are you looking at the right player? It's the one closest to the camera of the two who interferes with an opponent.

 

[es1]

Are you looking at the right player? It's the one closest to the camera of the two who interferes with an opponent.

View attachment 7302

Yeah, I reckon he's probably offside

 

[Russell Jones]

It looks like it probably is offside and lunin didnt attempt to save it.

Uefa should absolutely be releasing the graphic from the semi automated offside tech though...I'll not hold my breath mind.

Ref is equally at fault here as well. Just don't blow.

Even as a paid up member of the 'AR union', no way I'm placing equal blame on the referee here .. as the graphic shows, he's not even looking at the offside line when the ball is played, so if he's told by flag and over the Comms it's Offside then he's always going to blow the whistle

 

[cwyeary]

Even as a paid up member of the 'AR union', no way I'm placing equal blame on the referee here .. as the graphic shows, he's not even looking at the offside line when the ball is played, so if he's told by flag and over the Comms it's Offside then he's always going to blow the whistle

Sorry but it's his decision to use the whistle. The AR communicates that they have offside but they ref still has the whistle. And watching it again he already has the whistle in his mouth before the AR has even raised his flag.

Yes the AR got the call wrong (probably) but my gut told me it was Marciniak who communicated for him to raise the flag.

 

[GraemeS]

Sorry but it's his decision to use the whistle. The AR communicates that they have offside but they ref still has the whistle. And watching it again he already has the whistle in his mouth before the AR has even raised his flag.

Yes the AR got the call wrong (probably) but my gut told me it was Marciniak who communicated for him to raise the flag.

View attachment 7303

That's a complete guess. For a routine offside (by which I mean no weird elements like a defender touch), my understanding is that normal process would be AR sees an offside and communicates with the ref if it's close ("delay") or not "(flag").

Essentially, there are 3 possibilities:
1. The AR incorrectly judged it as clear and said "Flag" when it should have been a delay and wait to give VAR a chance.
2. The AR judged it as close but said the wrong word, causing an immediate whistle and flag.
3. The AR judged it as close, said "delay" but the ref misheard or misunderstood and blew regardless. The AR then had fantastic reflexes to follow with an unexpected flag almost as the whistle is blown.

Either the first or the second option seem far more likely and far more in line with what we actually saw than option 3.

 

[es1]

That's a complete guess. For a routine offside (by which I mean no weird elements like a defender touch), my understanding is that normal process would be AR sees an offside and communicates with the ref if it's close ("delay") or not "(flag").

Essentially, there are 3 possibilities:
1. The AR incorrectly judged it as clear and said "Flag" when it should have been a delay and wait to give VAR a chance.
2. The AR judged it as close but said the wrong word, causing an immediate whistle and flag.
3. The AR judged it as close, said "delay" but the ref misheard or misunderstood and blew regardless. The AR then had fantastic reflexes to follow with an unexpected flag almost as the whistle is blown.

Either the first or the second option seem far more likely and far more in line with what we actually saw than option 3.

there's a 4th i think.

the AR judged it as close, said "delay" then the ref judged the attack was over and they communicated to blow/raise the whistle when they did. clearly there error here was judging the attack was over when it clearly wasnt.

 

[RustyRef]

I think it is more likely that the AR just thought it was a lot more of an obvious offside than it actually was, otherwise he wouldn't have raised the flag at all. I've certainly given offside decisions thinking the attacker was a long way offside only to see that it was very tight when I've seen a replay.

 

[Peter Grove]

According to beIN Sports, with a 3D graphic analysis that they posted on Twitter, they reckon the player that challenged for the ball (Noussair Mazraoui) was onside when the ball was played.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1788458339115909423

 

[GraemeS]

Proof if it was ever needed that the "scrap VAR" argument is now fatally flawed. People will always continue to draw lines on screens, at least with the current system they can actually be useful in most cases rather than a stick to berate referees with post-game.

 

[Big Cat]

I'd be shocked if the offside aspect of VAR was ever withdrawn. Don't think anyone expects that
The hope is that semi-automation will dramatically speed things up

 

[RustyRef]

Proof if it was ever needed that the "scrap VAR" argument is now fatally flawed. People will always continue to draw lines on screens, at least with the current system they can actually be useful in most cases rather than a stick to berate referees with post-game.

Exactly what I've been saying since it came in. The broadcasters drew lines before VAR to try and prove referees were wrong, so they would do the same should it ever be scrapped.

 

[RustyRef]

I'm also really not sure where they have drawn the defensive line there, it almost seems to be at the defender's wrist and is well beyond the armpit level.

 

[ARF]

I'm also really not sure where they have drawn the defensive line there, it almost seems to be at the defender's wrist and is well beyond the armpit level.

The line has been drawn in the right place - it's the top of #22's arm. My issue is that in the photo Mazraoui's right knee looks to be level with de Ligt's, but isn't showing when the white plane appears.

 

[RustyRef]

The line has been drawn in the right place - it's the top of #22's arm. My issue is that in the photo Mazraoui's right knee looks to be level with de Ligt's, but isn't showing when the white plane appears.

Assuming it is the centre of the white line. That may be the other issue, my understanding is semi-automated VAR doesn't have any element of error tolerance like the manual VAR process does. So the line wouldn't be thick like that, even if the system shows they are 1mm on or off that is what they will go with.