RefSix

Scored after being offside, but not gaining advantage?

#1
So, I had an incident on Sunday. Very good game, very tight.

- Player 1 onside, Player 2 was slightly off.
- Player 1 got the ball played to them and ran through on goal. Stuffed it up and shot straight at the keeper.
- Rebounded off of the keeyer, and Player 1 again but hits the post.
- Player 2 then scored after the ball hits the post. The parent linesman put his flag up when Player 2 took his shot.

I gave a goal, as I think by that time (when all players were scrambling in the box), there was no advantage from Player 2 having been in the offside position.

Have I misunderstood the LOTG?
 
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one

RefChat Addict
#2
A few typos makes the post a bit hard to understand. If I understand your post correctly
Good decision.

there was no advantage from Player 2 having been in the offside position.
Correct but not quite for the right reasons.

Have I misunderstood the LOTG?
I am pretty sure you have even though you got the decision right.

Gaining an advantage in law 11, Offside, has it's own especial meaning and is not the same as common English meaning of gaining an advantage. You have to apply the law 11 meaning in refereeing.

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Any other way you may deem he has gained an advantage (general English meaning), does not mean he has committed an offence. So your scenario is not an offence because he was not in offside position when his team mate took the shot.
 
#3
Sorry seems to be a few missing t's in my post.

But yes, this is how I understood is as well. Their manager was furious because the player was originally offside although at this point was not involved in play. Only when Player 1 shot the second time, was he then involved.

Thanks very much.
 

socal lurker

Well-Known Member
#5
Where 2 was when the ball was played to 1 is totally irrelevant in your scenario (unless he interfered with an opponent at that time, and you don't say anything to suggest that).

What does matter is whether he was in OSP at the moment 1 took the shot. If he was in OSP at that moment and the received the ball, an OS offense for the poorly named gaining an advantage occurred.

(The poor naming comes as an accident of history. Not too, too long ago, it was enough to "attempt to gain an advantage" --which often meant anyone in OSP who moved generally toward the ball was committing an offense. I believe it was in the '80s that the attempt language was removed, leading to the evolution of what it means to gain an advantage from OS position. Which led to where we are now: the offense has nothing to do with any actually concept that the OS positioning was advantageous. It is simply a binary calculation: (1) was the player in OSP at the moment the ball was played or touched by his teammate, and (2) did that OSP player subsequently play or touch the ball after it deflects off an opponent or the goal frame. If both are true, it is an OS infraction. The concept is quite simple, but muddied by the language of advantage, which no longer truly fits the event. And that language of "advantage" leads far too many new refs down rabbit holes of confusion.)
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#7
So, I had an incident on Sunday. Very good game, very tight.

- Player 1 onside, Player 2 was slightly off.
- Player 1 got the ball played to them and ran through on goal. Stuffed it up and shot straight at the keeper.
- Rebounded off of the keeyer, and Player 1 again but hits the post.
- Player 2 then scored after the ball hits the post. The parent linesman put his flag up when Player 2 took his shot.

I gave a goal, as I think by that time (when all players were scrambling in the box), there was no advantage from Player 2 having been in the offside position.

Have I misunderstood the LOTG?
So long as when player 1 took his second shot player 2 was in an on side position then you got the right decision. I would echo @one s comments that you don't appear, at least in your descriptions to fully understand law 11 so I would recommend reading up on that law and also reviewing the guidance given in the back of the book to consolidate
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#8
So long as when player 1 took his second shot player 2 was in an on side position then you got the right decision. I would echo @one s comments that you don't appear, at least in your descriptions to fully understand law 11 so I would recommend reading up on that law and also reviewing the guidance given in the back of the book to consolidate
What he said ⬆️⬆️⬆️
 
#9
I believe it was in the '80s that the attempt language was removed, leading to the evolution of what it means to gain an advantage from OS position.
Not quite. The phrase was "seeking to gain an advantage" and it was introduced in 1978. The "seeking" part was removed in 1995, so that where before, most referees interpreted the "seeking" to mean a player only had to make a move towards the ball to be penalised, the new phraseology was taken to mean that an advantage had to actually be gained before a player was to be penalised. It was also in 1995 that the idea of being active was introduced, with the following wording:
A player shall only be penalised for being in an off-side position if, at the moment the ball touches, or is played by one of his team, he is in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play.
The current definition of "gaining an advantage," meaning playing a ball that rebounds off the goal-frame or an opponent (and which I agree is misleading and should be removed) was introduced by FIFA Circular No. 874, issued on 22 October 2003.
 
#11
“Seeking” is older than ‘78–it’s in the Laws printed in my 1975 version of Fair or Foul. (Thanks for the clarity on when it was removed—it was during my 20 year break from reffing.)
Nope, definitely '78. Here's the relevant portion of the minutes from the IFAB's 1978 AGM. The prior wording is on the left and the revised wording on the right.
IMG_20190311_141154.png
 
#15
When player 1 shot the 2nd time, was Player 2 in an offside position or not?
That's the only thing that matters here (unless, say, he was interfering with the keeper at the first shot)
 
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