Tricky offside, active close to GK?

[santa sangria]

Fast black team winger running on to ball over the top. Ball is heading for the box. NAR is old and slow.

Winger is 5m outside the box running in when GK comes to the edge if the box. I glance to see AR flag. Look back to see GK handle the ball to clear it away from the oncoming attacker.

AR was still, maybe 30m out, nowhere near level with ball or 18 yard line. AR is looking across, obvs has no idea about handling offence. I am pretty sure GK has handled outside the box.

It’s an adult serious game, grass.

My decision?
I blew and called offside. Reasoning: I can sell that we have to flag/blow early if there is any chance of GK collision (much easier sell with U15s!). Mercifully no complaints! And I immediately shouted I’ll explain after the game.

All the time I am thinking the attacker never became active - and I could’ve gone balls out with a DFK and YC against the GK.

Just to throw a spanner in, the other AR thought the flag was for handball, which it obvs wasn’t as that would’ve involved time travel and/or divine prescience!

Would you have done different?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Fast black team winger running on to ball over the top. Ball is heading for the box. NAR is old and slow.

Winger is 5m outside the box running in when GK comes to the edge if the box. I glance to see AR flag. Look back to see GK handle the ball to clear it away from the oncoming attacker.

AR was still, maybe 30m out, nowhere near level with ball or 18 yard line. AR is looking across, obvs has no idea about handling offence. I am pretty sure GK has handled outside the box.

It’s an adult serious game, grass.

My decision?
I blew and called offside. Reasoning: I can sell that we have to flag/blow early if there is any chance of GK collision (much easier sell with U15s!). Mercifully no complaints! And I immediately shouted I’ll explain after the game.

All the time I am thinking the attacker never became active - and I could’ve gone balls out with a DFK and YC against the GK.

Just to throw a spanner in, the other AR thought the flag was for handball, which it obvs wasn’t as that would’ve involved time travel and/or divine prescience!

Would you have done different?

Not had an AR on the game who was not suitable for the task in hand

 

[SLI39]

Sounds like a tricky one, but do you really need to rush into the decision? You could blow up and say you want to speak to the CAR to clarify the flag. Explain that in your view the attacker was not interfering and you have seen a hand ball. I've been in situations like this where I don't understand the flag, and it emerges that he has flagged for someone I've not considered. It is usually easy to sell, calms things down, and keeps the CAR alert/fully on your side.

 

[santa sangria]

Not had an AR on the game who was not suitable for the task in hand

I’m a couple of rungs and fifa country rankings down chief

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I’m a couple of rungs and fifa country rankings down chief

All the more reason to have suitable assistants.

 

[RobOda]

Just to confirm, he said he flagged for offside aye?

 

[bester]

Was there anybody else running in from an onside position? If you are waiting until the attacker is 5m from the 'keeper to give the offside then the collision is nearly unavoidable. Sounds like a perfect example of when the laws allow an early flag.

 

[santa sangria]

Just to confirm, he said he flagged for offside aye?

Yesh

 

[santa sangria]

Was there anybody else running in from an onside position? If you are waiting until the attacker is 5m from the 'keeper to give the offside then the collision is nearly unavoidable. Sounds like a perfect example of when the laws allow an early flag.

I think that's a good sell.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Of course difficult to picture, but I think the decision and reasoning were fine. Laws allow for an early flag to try to prevent a collision between keeper and attacker.

Also, could you make the argument that an attacker bearing down on the keeper fulfils the criteria of making an obvious action impacting the keeper's ability to play the ball?

It's a tough one, I could argue the 'decision' to handle the ball outside the box doesn't make for an offside offence as per FIFA guidance over the last few years, but I still feel like a flag here is arguably consistent with the 'early flag to protect the keeper' idea.

And you're not making up an offside - your NAR flagged it. Sure, he was out of position - but unless you're 100% certain the AR is wrong, I think you really have to go with him.

So really, it just comes down to whether an attacker 5 yards away from the keeper and bearing down on the keeper justifies an early flag. If you consider it does, then the keeper handling it outside the box becomes a bit of a red herring.

 

[AlexF]

All the more reason to have suitable assistants.

I'm glad that you're always in a position to have this.

The real world is that sometimes, that's just not the case.

 

[one]

I'm glad that you're always in a position to have this.

The real world is that sometimes, that's just not the case.

The real grassroots world is most times, that is just not the case. Suitable assistants were not born suitable.

 

[one]

A footnote interesting question. If you penalise the handball, does DOGSO come into it?

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

A footnote interesting question. If you penalise the handball, does DOGSO come into it?

I think I remember FIFA clarifying somewhere that DHB is playing the ball. So.....yes.

 

[one]

I think I remember FIFA clarifying somewhere that DHB is playing the ball. So.....yes.

Not sure if I missed a point or you missed my point. The opponent he denied the goal to was in an offside position so if he had scored a goal without the handball happening, it wouldn't have counted.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I'm glad that you're always in a position to have this.

The real world is that sometimes, that's just not the case.

Do you get into a car with someone who aint fit to drive
Sorry if I take my referreing too seriously but am not doing a game with someone who aint suitable

 

[RustyRef]

Do you get into a car with someone who aint fit to drive
Sorry if I take my referreing too seriously but am not doing a game with someone who aint suitable

It must be better in Scotland then, because in England this happens a lot. Especially to level 4 referees, as their level 5, 6 or 7 assistants could be of any kind of variable standard. I watched a friend of mine referee a supply league game where the assistant failed to flag offside when the player was at least 15 metres off. Even when I was level 3, a couple of the new L4 assistants I had were truly awful and out of their depth, although the vast majority were really good.

You don't get to choose who you work with, that is certainly the case in England anyway.

 

[RobOda]

a couple of the new L4 assistants I had were truly awful and out of their depth, although the vast majority were really good.

Ouch, is that an issue with the assessment system then?

 

[RustyRef]

Ouch, is that an issue with the assessment system then?

Referees are promoted to L4 based on their refereeing performances. They have to have done a certain number of games as assistants, but even if they were observed on them (as part of a supply league scheme) the CFA won't have the details.

One assistant in particular was so bad I had to actually go along with some of his his wrong decisions otherwise I'd have been overruling every five minutes. Obviously when I say that I mean non game changing decisions, and when he goofed up serious decisions I obviously corrected. Interesting game, I was a first year L3 in only my second game at that level with two first year L4s. Senior assistant got binned after two years, junior assistant is now a successful L3

 

[JamesL]

One assistant in particular was so bad I had to actually go along with some of his his wrong decisions otherwise I'd have been overruling every five minutes. Obviously when I say that I mean non game changing decisions, and when he goofed up serious decisions I obviously corrected. Interesting game, I was a first year L3 in only my second game at that level with two first year L4s. Senior assistant got binned after two years, junior assistant is now a successful L3

Advice here please rusty?

Had an assistant recently, he was really good, but in the game I had a similar incident to OP, that ran through to goalie who cleared but attacker was really close, enough for me to consider him to be challenging. I said at half time I would have wanted the flag, he was doing the wait and see, ready to raise on touching of the ball by attacker, and that I almost blew anyway but didnt know if would have given me the flag to support me.

Would you have blown up for offside or allowed play to continue? In hindsight it caused me no match control issues nor did it lead to a match changing incident, although had the ball broke better it might have done. He was a young lad on dugout side so I am glad I supported him but what would you have done here?

Open to others suggestions as well...