A&H

VAR Farce Part Deux

These lines they use are a bit weird. Not sure if anyone saw the disallowed "did it cross the line" in Australia's A-League this weekend?
 
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@Sheffields Finest you started this with a comment about clear and obvious but you know that clear and obvious doesn't apply to offside, it has been said enough times on here.

That said, they need to do something about offside as they are doing it down to millimetres and I am far from convinced that the technology on offsides is accurate enough for that.
 
I get that but its a phrase used in common parlance in football and you know exactly what I mean but i know you like to input negatively on my posts. We've gone from trying to engineer out the 'clear and obvious' errors to 'lets look for minute stuff because we can'. Unless you're a Spurs fan or a Wednesday fan you'd be miffed if this was scrubbed off for your team. I haven't read ANYBODY recently that actually think this system is working well, they are going from week to week looking more like buffoons than what they ever looked before. Its currently a joke system run by refs that are not technological. I cant wait till Jon Moss turns up at BL to do his day job!!! He's going to get a great welcome!!
 
The offside forensics is simply not 'in the spirit of the game', the way they're doing it
WRT GLT technology, they tend to show that animation of the ball and the line. GLT works to a certain precision, so the graphic is more apt than the actual camera images. We all just accept the outcome
Conversely with offside, the public are shown the frames rather than a graphic. This shambles has to be automated with great haste and a computer generated graphic would allow for, and mask the inherent issues with precision
Staff at Mothercare have a more certain future than elite AR's IMO. I've no clue where they'll end up with the role of Referee, but they've opened a massive can of worms with VAR
 
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This isn’t how you should be celebrating your 1st ever Premier League goal. With a slight little fist pump, several minutes after the goal has gone in, because you’re worried your teammate’s testicle hair might have been offside somewhere in the build up!
 
@Sheffields Finest you started this with a comment about clear and obvious but you know that clear and obvious doesn't apply to offside, it has been said enough times on here.

That said, they need to do something about offside as they are doing it down to millimetres and I am far from convinced that the technology on offsides is accurate enough for that.
Your second sentence, i have been saying it since VAR started. Its not just offside,

Your first sentence made me wonder, does it not apply to offside decisions all together or just in determining if a player is in offside position. Because interfering with play or with an opponent is not factual but subjective. Referring to the laws of the game, it seems that both assertion (C&O not applying to offside or not applying to PIOP) are incorrect. It was something that came from standalone VAR guidelines/protocol which has since been replaced by the LOTG after VAR was no longer an experiment.


So from what I can see, C&O does apply to offside (and other 'factual decisions). Pg 141

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I get that but its a phrase used in common parlance in football and you know exactly what I mean but i know you like to input negatively on my posts. We've gone from trying to engineer out the 'clear and obvious' errors to 'lets look for minute stuff because we can'. Unless you're a Spurs fan or a Wednesday fan you'd be miffed if this was scrubbed off for your team. I haven't read ANYBODY recently that actually think this system is working well, they are going from week to week looking more like buffoons than what they ever looked before. Its currently a joke system run by refs that are not technological. I cant wait till Jon Moss turns up at BL to do his day job!!! He's going to get a great welcome!!

I'd be miffed if it was scrubbed out for anyone (believe it or not I am actually somewhat in awe of our cross City neighbour's rise up the league). I don't think it is working well, and as I've said many times they need to turn on the pitch side monitors. That wouldn't help here though, and even in Europe they are doing offside to the millimetre and without ever using the monitors as it is a black and white rather than subjective decision.

But, and to answer One's point at the same time, there is no doubt that PGMOL are doing offside to the millimetre so there is no clear and obvious. Whether that is right, whether it is in line with IFAB guidance and regulations, is well and truly open to debate, but they certainly are doing it that way. Would be very difficult to change midseason as then there will be total misbalance and injustice.
 
I'd be miffed if it was scrubbed out for anyone (believe it or not I am actually somewhat in awe of our cross City neighbour's rise up the league). I don't think it is working well, and as I've said many times they need to turn on the pitch side monitors. That wouldn't help here though, and even in Europe they are doing offside to the millimetre and without ever using the monitors as it is a black and white rather than subjective decision.

But, and to answer One's point at the same time, there is no doubt that PGMOL are doing offside to the millimetre so there is no clear and obvious. Whether that is right, whether it is in line with IFAB guidance and regulations, is well and truly open to debate, but they certainly are doing it that way. Would be very difficult to change midseason as then there will be total misbalance and injustice.

My assumption would be that they are doing offsides to the millimetre to keep consistency. If you do it for all, you have consistency but if you do it for clear and obvious, people debate that line of clear and obvious for offside.
 
My assumption would be that they are doing offsides to the millimetre to keep consistency. If you do it for all, you have consistency but if you do it for clear and obvious, people debate that line of clear and obvious for offside.

Exactly this. A precedent has been set, irrespective of your opinion on the matter, it MUST stay this way for the remainder of the season and be reviewed at the end of it

Start doing the opposite now and it opens a Pandora’s Box with teams being up in arms over goals being allowed when a month or so before they’d be ruled out with the rhetoric over promotion/relegation and places etc.

Hopefully by then HawkEye will have a “wall” rather than a line which will make it much clearer
 
Just build in a tolerance level, if less than that, has to go with on field decision.

In fact Gary Lineker's (yes I know!) time limit idea isn't too shabby either.

Lets face it after 3 minutes plus no one has any confidence in the decision one way or the other!

Can you just imagine the furore in one of our games - there's a penalty shout and you blow your whistle and say

'OK lads, I'll get back to you in about 3 - 4 minutes and let you know if that's a pen or not' - its farcical and yet some are STILL happy to defend it!
 
I believe the reasoning is that anything that can be factually determined (as opposed to requiring judgment) is clear and obvious if it can be detained on the video. Like many things from IFAB, the use of language may not satisfy a grammarian...
 
I believe the reasoning is that anything that can be factually determined (as opposed to requiring judgment) is clear and obvious if it can be detained on the video. Like many things from IFAB, the use of language may not satisfy a grammarian...

but that's the point, just judging the exact point of contact isn't an exact science given the definition and frames per second of the footage - once you get into is that fuzzy extremity of his shoulder past that fuzzy extremity of his big toe, people tend to lose confidence and/or the will to live!
 
I’m not defending. I think we should totally abandon VAR.

We live in a world that expects answers. Once you have VAR, it’s very difficult to not use as precisely as possible (even if that leads to false precision). When you don’t have VAR, fans dont’t get too upset the other team scored but was 2 inches off. With VAR, once you see that it was 2 inches off (or appeared to be two inches off by the limits of the technology) it becomes hard to explain why you don’t call it.
 
Your second sentence, i have been saying it since VAR started. Its not just offside,

Your first sentence made me wonder, does it not apply to offside decisions all together or just in determining if a player is in offside position. Because interfering with play or with an opponent is not factual but subjective. Referring to the laws of the game, it seems that both assertion (C&O not applying to offside or not applying to PIOP) are incorrect. It was something that came from standalone VAR guidelines/protocol which has since been replaced by the LOTG after VAR was no longer an experiment.


So from what I can see, C&O does apply to offside (and other 'factual decisions). Pg 141

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Thanks, I knew he was making it up to suit his argument!
 
I wonder if the boot manufacturers will be getting phone calls as the bright yellow boots seem to get to look like size 18s in the current VAR photography
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