Villa vs Utd
- Thread starter Degnann
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If Fernandes is a yard away from the opponent, the opponent is a yard away from him....... Fernandes is actually about a yard away from the opponent at the start of the move and the move in together.
This is a really marginal one. I think spuddy nailed it if I am honest. I can see why some might say no penalty after viewing the slow mo. But, we shouldn't be using the slow mo here, we look at this in real time, it looks like a penalty to me. I suspect the no pen camp can provide evidence to say no pen and likewise the pen camp could show why it is a foul and either be as convincing as the other.
Can see PL match centre have come out and said wrong decision, but if I am honest we've disagreed with them plenty of times before on here.
Tough one
There's no trip by the defender, not even an attempted trip.
VAR has reverted to the early season nonsense where no PGMOL ref in Stockley Park was ready to say any other PGMOL ref could make a mistake.
Did someone say we were getting foreign FIFA refs as VAR next season?
Just because he does a spin first, it doesn't change the fact that the end result is him jumping studs-first into an opponent's ankle. If he's incapable of doing that spin in a safe manner, then it's his responsibility to realise that and abort the move. If he loses possession in order to ensure his opponent's safety, so what?
This is definitely a foul by Fernandes for me. I'd be happy with either colour card, but I think it's more red than yellow.
This is definitely a foul by Fernandes for me. I'd be happy with either colour card, but I think it's more red than yellow.
the studs right on the shin of the defender cements it as a red for me too
The context of where the oppoenents are and what effect it might have on them is important though. We've all seen overhead kicks disallowed because they didn't consider the safety of the oppoents nearby and we all accept is it possible to do an overhead kick in a safe manner as well. This falls into the same camp for me - if it's safe to do then fine, if it's not then you have to recognise that and do something else.I suspect that if the player was Salah you would have a different opinion
In no way should skill be discouraged from the game. The Maradona, or the Zidane pirouette, is a skill move thats executed in close proximity to your opponent. He hasn't thrown himself into anything, he has trapped the ball, spun, and his foot has landed exactly where it should have, to complete the second half of the move. Looking at the freeze frame, the defender has lunged in at pretty much the same moment to try and win the ball and gotten no where near it. There is nothing reckless about it. The defender got caught because of a poorly timed challenge, not through the recklessness of an opponent. Fernandes is actually about a yard away from the opponent at the start of the move and the move in together.
This is a really marginal one. I think spuddy nailed it if I am honest. I can see why some might say no penalty after viewing the slow mo. But, we shouldn't be using the slow mo here, we look at this in real time, it looks like a penalty to me. I suspect the no pen camp can provide evidence to say no pen and likewise the pen camp could show why it is a foul and either be as convincing as the other.
Can see PL match centre have come out and said wrong decision, but if I am honest we've disagreed with them plenty of times before on here.
Tough one
Reminds me of the players we all get each winter who'll go sliding metres into a tackle on a greasy wet surface, then whinge vehemently at you after he clatters an opponent. Mate... if it ain't safe to do, and you still do it, that's YOUR fault.
Why?
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It’s not discouraging skill. It’s discouraging players from not looking where they are sticking their legs.I suspect that if the player was Salah you would have a different opinion
In no way should skill be discouraged from the game. The Maradona, or the Zidane pirouette, is a skill move thats executed in close proximity to your opponent. He hasn't thrown himself into anything, he has trapped the ball, spun, and his foot has landed exactly where it should have, to complete the second half of the move. Looking at the freeze frame, the defender has lunged in at pretty much the same moment to try and win the ball and gotten no where near it. There is nothing reckless about it. The defender got caught because of a poorly timed challenge, not through the recklessness of an opponent. Fernandes is actually about a yard away from the opponent at the start of the move and the move in together.
This is a really marginal one. I think spuddy nailed it if I am honest. I can see why some might say no penalty after viewing the slow mo. But, we shouldn't be using the slow mo here, we look at this in real time, it looks like a penalty to me. I suspect the no pen camp can provide evidence to say no pen and likewise the pen camp could show why it is a foul and either be as convincing as the other.
Can see PL match centre have come out and said wrong decision, but if I am honest we've disagreed with them plenty of times before on here.
Tough one
I don’t think this is a tricky case at all. That does make me wonder what MO was thinking in the booth...
Because absolutely nobody is expecting that whatsoever and it would be completely unwarranted. Ok he’s caught him on the shin but it’s not SFP. You pull a red out there and the United players lose their heads
So that isn't "what football expects" at all then is it? It's taking a decision so you maintain match control........but if you are wrong in law to do so then I still say shame on that referee...
And what if the United players lose their heads? The tools are there for the referee to use.......oh! I forgot...this is the premier league, we don't use cards because the precious players may not be available for next week's circus event......
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I’d be closer to showing Fernandes a red than I would be giving Utd a pen.
Yes, yes I know, still photos look worse etc, but I don’t buy that just because the players aren’t expecting a red doesn’t make it a red
I wasn’t suggesting it’s not a red because people aren’t expecting it. I was asked why I thought match control would be gone, and my reason was it’s not a red, nobody expected a red, so going with a red would be wrong and lose match control.
You’ve twisted my words there. My point was that it’s not a red card and nobody has even made the argument on the FOP that it is, so by then going red you’ll lose match control. Player reaction Can sometimes be a good indicator of an outcome.
I think there’s to much focus on the studs to shin here, something which isn’t a red card on it’s own. Yes, that happened but it didn’t endanger the safety of an opponent. You could actually argue that the defenders clumsy challenge put themselves in that scenario.
I highly disagree. I firmly believe the studs on the shin from a downward motion endangers the opponents safety.
But if the defender has mistimed a challenge, is the responsibility solely on the attacker? The downward motion you’re talking about as well is a player attempting to put his foot on the ground. It’s not a stamp or excessive force.
if I go up for a header and you stick your leg underneath me and I land on it, you endangered yourself despite me putting my studs into your leg.
Where did I twist any words? I'm not the only one that thinks this is a red card offence.
You offered a clarification of your own free will...no coercion involved, neither any word twisting.
You've used the word "if" twice in this post. And neither of those "if" scenarios you've hypothesised apply here.
Ok, sorry. The defender DID mistime his challenge, so is the responsibility solely on the attacker?