A&H

What an absolute load of ******** dissent is

I certainly wouldn't want to have to "manage" sin bins at park level. Constant additional shouts from the side lines "can I come back on yet ref?" whilst constantly checking your watch to see if the offender's time is up.

Some 5-a-side leagues I have seen use them, was at one years ago with work mates. Watching one match in our group, this bloke was getting more and more wound up (probably due to his complete lack of football ability and his side getting beaten), eventually gets a yellow card for a poor challenge and sin binned for 2 minutes. Throws a few expletives at the referee as he walks off. Could see him at the opposite end of the pitch pacing up and down itching to come back on. Referee calls him back on, he comes storming back on and immediately dives in 2 footed & knee high. Fortunately his intended target saw it coming and managed to take evasive action. Referee wasted little time in whipping out the red card (banned for the rest of the tournament), off he goes accompanied with yet more f'ing and jeff'n. :confused:

Beezer said:
This brings the argument about Dissent back to the Referees at the top level not applying it , from there it filters down the levels till the 13 and 14 year olds think its part of the game and therefor carry into adult football
Though I must admit in the Champions league it seems to be dealt with rather well
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Had exactly the same conversation with a few players last weekend. Tried to explain to them, just because Rooney and co do and mostly get away with it in the Premier League, doesn't make it right.

Can only presume it's a strict UEFA directive with regard to dealing with any form of dissent as even the English Premier League referees on CL duty deal with it far more swiftly and effectively than they would back home.
 
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Mooseybaby said:
Can only presume it's a strict UEFA directive with regard to dealing with any form of dissent as even the English Premier League referees on CL duty deal with it far more swiftly and effectively than they would back home.
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See the power of UEFA assessors again the PL self-appraisal system. Knowing that you will be dropped if you do it right is a powerful tool, but it is the side effect of professional referees. The FA would have to pay them and get other referees to do their matches.
 
You are all missing the point here. We do not need to change the laws, just the mind set. The law is there and is quite clear, dissent by word or action is a cautionable offence. Unfortunately for whatever reason, dissent has crept in as being 'part of the game', the same as grappling and holding in the penalty area for corners/free kicks. What we need is a stance from the governing bodies that it is no longer acceptable and just part of the game but this needs to come from the top. It would only take a couple of weeks of players in the top flight being cautioned and sent off and a few penalties given and the message would sink in !
 
I think that's true.
It may well be that a caution for dissent will never be sufficient - after all, a caution on its own doesn't mean anything, so perhaps sports that use a sinbin have an advantage here; a sinbin is an immediate punishment, while a caution only means something if they're thick enough to cop another caution, or pick up enough cautions across the year to be suspended. So, it's a future problem.

But the biggest problem, by far, is attitude. It may be that a change in laws would get us that final 10% to where we need to be, but the first 90% has to come from an attitude change. Changing the laws to make penalties more severe will only mean that referees will become even more reluctant to punish dissent - because, in this messed up game, if they then apply that punishment they'll cop too much abuse from the other players!!
 
My match weekend just gone ...Player gives me little verbal so i have quiet word... next thing his captain's shouting " come on you lot we've had this ref before he won't have none of this dissent stuff" both teams good as gold after that good old end to end football match it was a pleasure to do ended up 3-3 i congratulated both managers after the match for a good game of football.................
 
As referees, we have all the power at our disposal to deal with dissent. We have a tonge to communicate with and a set of cards.
When I did my referees course there was not one word about dealing with dissent.
CFA's should have a course to educate new referees on how to deal with dissent, and it should be compulsory to pass from 9 -> 7.
 
paulwfromtheden said:
As referees, we have all the power at our disposal to deal with dissent. We have a tonge to communicate with and a set of cards.
When I did my referees course there was not one word about dealing with dissent.
CFA's should have a course to educate new referees on how to deal with dissent, and it should be compulsory to pass from 9 -> 7.
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The course is very different now Paul and it has been in quite a few Counties for some time. Training is given on how to deal with dissent and the Respect programme has been part of our courses in the West Riding since around 2009 I believe.
 
I believe the best way to curb dissent (other than Premier League enforcement) would be for every £10 fine a player gets for dissent so does his club.
 
Darius said:
I believe the best way to curb dissent (other than Premier League enforcement) would be for every £10 fine a player gets for dissent so does his club.
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I believe that clubs are getting an additional fine and disciplinary points for each 6 cautions for dissent this season.
 
It's a start. Just find it disgusting how much attitude you can get from some teams (which is worse than it being just from some players) literally just for having a whistle in your hand.

I'm talking as in the ones who are on your case before games even begun.

Managers control dissent in Saturday/Sunday Morning football because players copy them. Their own manager shouting 'shut up he was onside' is better than anything I can do to curb dissent.

Managers also usually control finances as well!
 
Just a little thing: if you REALLY mouth off to the ref in ice hockey, you're in the penalty box for 10m (though this doesn't affect on ice strength)
 
As mentioned in some posts above dissent has become a part of the game just like anything else. I have experimented with clamping down on dissent in some games the past, but for the most part this has just created trouble for my control of the game, with players getting more frustrated and rather diving into a tackle instead of making a brief outburst.

Another 'problem' is the refereeing culture of our country, where we rather manage the players instead of booking them at the first opportunity, and a referee with a high card average is often looked down upon. We will definitely see more cards being shown with (consistent) clamp-down on dissent.
 
Lefelee said:
As mentioned in some posts above dissent has become a part of the game just like anything else. I have experimented with clamping down on dissent in some games the past, but for the most part this has just created trouble for my control of the game, with players getting more frustrated and rather diving into a tackle instead of making a brief outburst.

Another 'problem' is the refereeing culture of our country, where we rather manage the players instead of booking them at the first opportunity, and a referee with a high card average is often looked down upon. We will definitely see more cards being shown with (consistent) clamp-down on dissent.
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Your job is not to be a target to vent a player's frustration so he doesn't jump into players.
Please don't make excuses for not cautioning for incidents you know are dissent. Refereeing for club marks is the road to ruin
I averaged 1.5 dissent cautions per match last season and had a pretty good season going by my end of season appointments.
 
Darius said:
It's a start. Just find it disgusting how much attitude you can get from some teams (which is worse than it being just from some players) literally just for having a whistle in your hand.

I'm talking as in the ones who are on your case before games even begun.
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I love these teams. Usually by the 4/5 caution they twig. If not, I keep going.
I'm glad I'm on the match and not little Johnny doing his first match who they would eat alive.
One thing's for sure, NEXT week's ref will have a much quieter day!
 
Lefelee said:
As mentioned in some posts above dissent has become a part of the game just like anything else. I have experimented with clamping down on dissent in some games the past, but for the most part this has just created trouble for my control of the game, with players getting more frustrated and rather diving into a tackle instead of making a brief outburst.

Another 'problem' is the refereeing culture of our country, where we rather manage the players instead of booking them at the first opportunity, and a referee with a high card average is often looked down upon. We will definitely see more cards being shown with (consistent) clamp-down on dissent.
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Problem is, you can't really go on a one-man rampage against dissent. I may believe zero tolerance should be the way, but it would be counterproductive to try and apply that myself. We're stuck refereeing to expectations, and in doing that we also reinforce those expectations. Only approach is a universal one.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Problem is, you can't really go on a one-man rampage against dissent. I may believe zero tolerance should be the way, but it would be counterproductive to try and apply that myself. We're stuck refereeing to expectations, and in doing that we also reinforce those expectations. Only approach is a universal one.
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I don't have a zero tolerance approach, but I am prob the toughest on dissent in my league. That is realistic and as I get a reputation for this the cards slowly go down. Never think you can't do anything. Football is a small world. They will remember you.
 
I do indeed think that we need a nationwide stricter enforcement of dissent if we want to achieve consistency and reduce the level of dissenting behaviour. When watching the PL you rarely see more than 1-2 cautions for dissent each matchday, even though I don't see less dissent in the PL than La Liga or Serie A for instance, where the referees are much more on their toes and consistently applying disciplinary measures. English referees might be better at management, but the southern europeans have a lot more flair and courage than us. I sometimes hear that I look like a spaniard when I'm in the middle and I don't take offense at all. If we could get rid of the idea in people's (including many referees and assessors) heads that a referee who shows a lot of cards is a bad referee the job would be easier.
 
deusex said:
I don't have a zero tolerance approach, but I am prob the toughest on dissent in my league. That is realistic and as I get a reputation for this the cards slowly go down. Never think you can't do anything. Football is a small world. They will remember you.
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THIS. If I can have a quieter weekend and some of my friends do as well, the week after I've refereed a particular team, then my work here is done :)
 
Lefelee said:
I do indeed think that we need a nationwide stricter enforcement of dissent if we want to achieve consistency and reduce the level of dissenting behaviour. When watching the PL you rarely see more than 1-2 cautions for dissent each matchday, even though I don't see less dissent in the PL than La Liga or Serie A for instance, where the referees are much more on their toes and consistently applying disciplinary measures. English referees might be better at management, but the southern europeans have a lot more flair and courage than us. I sometimes hear that I look like a spaniard when I'm in the middle and I don't take offense at all. If we could get rid of the idea in people's (including many referees and assessors) heads that a referee who shows a lot of cards is a bad referee the job would be easier.
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It's not in this assessor's head. If it looks like a yellow, feels like a yellow, then it IS a caution.
 
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