A&H

What is wrong with people?

Cool your jets please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Check out my exclamations!)

DB - you may be picking up that this is one of the holy grail, not to be transgressed or mitigated offences by players. Everyone else, he gets the point now (or he never does)

Now, let's everyone settle down some. Please. :)
 
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What will you do next time you are called a cheat?

What's done is done, you can't change it, and no amount of more experienced colleagues explaining to you why it was the wrong choice is going to change it.

The only thing that matters now is how you will deal with it the next time that situation arises?
 
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@SM It's obviously an experience thing. I consider myself told. I do get their points, of course I'm not that naive. I just think certain people could make their points a bit more constructively. :)

I've said what I wanted to say, I don't want to go round in circles. I wanted to share the experience and get a little CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. I achieved one of two goals :)

@Padfoot , your last two posts... Thank you for actually doing so in a good, constructive manner. It's a lesson learnt. It's experience. As I stated in my first post, it was the first time I'd experienced this situation.
 
@DB - I do agree, points could be made with less intensity. Especially as you had already posted you got the point before you were jumped upon.

To everyone; I'm on thread ban defcon 4 - no more verbal warnings. Next warning are point based.

Just balance the point you are making and level of passion in making it please.
 
DB said:
@SM It's obviously an experience thing. I consider myself told. I do get their points, of course I'm not that naive. I just think certain people could make their points a bit more constructively. :)

I've said what I wanted to say, I don't want to go round in circles. I wanted to share the experience and get a little CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. I achieved one of two goals :)

@Padfoot , your last two posts... Thank you for actually doing so in a good, constructive manner. It's a lesson learnt. It's experience. As I stated in my first post, it was the first time I'd experienced this situation.
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At the end of the day you walked him at the same time in the game for the second comment anyway, so it made no difference in the grand scheme of things.

I've never had the 'cheat' comment yet but I have a special cherry in my pocket for when that moment arises.
 
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NERef said:
What would constructive feedback sound like?
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Constructive criticism would not run to comments about LWR or such, but could be something more like:

In my experience and those of people far better than I will ever be, calling someone a "cheat" is one of the few guaranteed reasons for a straight sending off. When I first started, I made similar mistakes, we all do (and anyone that tells you otherwise is stretching the truth!), but the key is to learn from the experience.

While it may have worked out in this case (which didn't seem to be the case based on the followup incident), it's best to draw a strong line in the sand because by calling you, the referee, a cheat, he's impugning all referees this week, last week, and next. Referees are supposed to be the only ones at a game that don't care about the end result/etc... by suggesting that they're cheats/cheating, then that is calling your lack of bias into serious question.


In short... start out by suggesting the right course of action, and empathize (if possible). Then go on to explain WHY. The "WHY" portion is the most important portion of constructive criticism... as it gives reason for the behaviour to improve.
 
AlexF said:
Constructive criticism would not run to comments about LWR or such, but could be something more like:

In my experience and those of people far better than I will ever be, calling someone a "cheat" is one of the few guaranteed reasons for a straight sending off. When I first started, I made similar mistakes, we all do (and anyone that tells you otherwise is stretching the truth!), but the key is to learn from the experience.

While it may have worked out in this case (which didn't seem to be the case based on the followup incident), it's best to draw a strong line in the sand because by calling you, the referee, a cheat, he's impugning all referees this week, last week, and next. Referees are supposed to be the only ones at a game that don't care about the end result/etc... by suggesting that they're cheats/cheating, then that is calling your lack of bias into serious question.


In short... start out by suggesting the right course of action, and empathize (if possible). Then go on to explain WHY. The "WHY" portion is the most important portion of constructive criticism... as it gives reason for the behaviour to improve.
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Thank you. This is what I am on about when I use that term @NERef . This is the sort of response I would expect from an assessor/tutor/more experienced referee than myself.
 
The questions I asked were to open up your mind to "what if". Another dimension of looking at it. It's disappointing to hear you don't see that as constructive feedback.

Anyway, good discussion point and onwards and upwards for you from here.

Lots of positives to come out of the game. Don't forget those.
 
I don't know if this is breaking any rules but can we have a straw poll on what is most offensive to them (you can only pick your most offensive!)

1. C word that rhymes with James Blunt and Jeremy Hunt
2. Cheat
 
Darius said:
I don't know if this is breaking any rules but can we have a straw poll on what is most offensive to them (you can only pick your most offensive!)

1. C word that rhymes with James Blunt and Jeremy Hunt
2. Cheat
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They're the only two words that earn an 'automatic' red from me. I'm not saying they're the only two words that constitute OFFINABUS for me, but other delightful adjectives that could be used require some aggression before I'd be sending them on their way.
 
NERef said:
The questions I asked were to open up your mind to "what if". Another dimension of looking at it. It's disappointing to hear you don't see that as constructive feedback.
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For what it's worth, I thought that your followup questions were good -- but I suspect that it was the context that everything came in with that short time frame...
 
Padfoot said:
I don't want to cover ground that has been done to death on here several times over.....so I'll just say that there is no requirement for anyone to actually feel offended, insulted or abused....the offence is for someone to use offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures.
Just consider that some words, phrases or gestures can be designed to offensive, insulting or abusive by their very nature regardless of whether they achieve the desired result.

It's the action that we are punishing not the result.
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Really good way of putting it. I'm not going to go home and cry into my Guinness because somebody called me a cheat, I'm not going to take it personally so I may not 'feel' offense, but it's a highly offensive comment which is sufficent. Similarly, the sheer stupidity of the goalkeeper who thinks he can judge offside up the far end of the field I find highly offensive, but that's not sufficient for a red card :p
 
Every referee has there own words that they send off for cheat is at the top of the list.

If your not sending off for it you are doing every other referee a disfavour

Anything with ****ing infront of it tends to get me to reach for my back pocket

Being called a see you next Tuesday as well

And then being called a rat which I was called at school will earn you an early bath as well
 
I'm sorry DB but I have to agree with Padfoot et al. Calling a referee a cheat is the ultimate in offensive and insulting language. I don't know a single referee who would not dismiss a player for this. To take it to an admittedly theoretical but totally logical conclusion, if you only caution for this, you could have the situation where all 22 players can call the refere a cheat and every one of them is still on the pitch. If that were to happen, any semblance of match control you might have had, would have been completely destroyed.

I know you're relatively new at this, so just take it as a learning point. IMHO you cannot afford to let a player get away with calling you a cheat and hope to retain any kind of integrity as a referee.
 
DB this idea you have that we're all out to ruin a bunch of lads weekend and all the players go to the bar discussing what a top bloke they had reffing today is fantasy.
They'd have been laughing about what he got away with calling you if his own stupidity hadn't got him binned anyway.
You're also creating trouble for next week's ref who correctly sends him off for calling the ref a cheat.
I'm not offended by being called a cheat, but I am sending off for it every time.
Certain words toward an official have to be unacceptable for our position to have any credibility.
I wouldn't be offended by being called a d*ck, kn*b or w*nk*r, but am I going to send off? Every time.
 
It's not about whether you were insulted or offended; it's about whether the comment is insulting or offensive by its very nature. To question the impartiality of the impartial official is to insult and offend not only that official but officials in general. They simply must go.
 
@DB in amongst one of your earlier posts you said 19 games a week were being postponed in your league because of no ref.

Two questions, what caused all the referees to walk away and does the league not have one of the SCOR rules whereby if the appointed referee doesn't turn up, then the teams have to agree one between them? This second question is the one that interests me most as this is part of the SCOR and the penalties are heavy for failing to comply.
 
In short Brian, No. The CFA/Leagues state that games must be played with a referee in the ordered months. It basically says that a referee shall be nominated between the teams in the event of an appointed referee becoming unavailable in April/May (the end of the season).

The problem is (I'm told), there's a shortage of level 4 referee's in the county. Because of that, level fives are having to step up to the games the 4's are doing, the 6's are then having to take charge of the senior games that the 5's do, they then force the 7's up. There are plenty of level 6 & 7 referees, but they all get taken from the lower leagues and filtered upwards. One of my proposals at the League AGM is that where a referee is appointed to a match, in the event of him/her being reassigned, the game should go ahead with a nominated official from one of the clubs. If not, they get fined. I believe that's the rule for most leagues

There's a large number of games that should have been played during the summer, that didn't because the teams couldn't agree a referee. This paired together with the weather of late has amassed a huge fixture backlog. With no season extension either, the teams down here are up against it.

deusex said:
DB this idea you have that we're all out to ruin a bunch of lads weekend.
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I'm afraid that's the impression I get on here sometimes
 
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