A&H

Junior/Youth Lenience

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I disagree, for a start you say that if you send them off they won't do it again, however, I think in this case a stern talking to would do that. Also, in the handball case, it is very likely that he has not actually done anything wrong intentionally, he has just acted on instinct and put his hand in the air.
Obviously, if a 12 year old swore at me or punched an opponent, it would be a very different matter.
 
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hattersfan said:
I disagree, for a start you say that if you send them off they won't do it again, however, I think in this case a stern talking to would do that. Also, in the handball case, it is very likely that he has not actually done anything wrong intentionally, he has just acted on instinct and put his hand in the air.
Obviously, if a 12 year old swore at me or punched an opponent, it would be a very different matter.
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I don't understand why OFFINABUS or Violent Conduct should be treated different from a DOGSO...?
 
hattersfan said:
I disagree, for a start you say that if you send them off they won't do it again, however, I think in this case a stern talking to would do that. Also, in the handball case, it is very likely that he has not actually done anything wrong intentionally, he has just acted on instinct and put his hand in the air.
Obviously, if a 12 year old swore at me or punched an opponent, it would be a very different matter.
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But surely if you say that players should simply be given a 'taking to' then you are only sending out the message that they can get away with offending every time with just a talking to? Players will DOGSO every time if they know they will not be punished, but they will obviously think twice about it if they realise they are going to be red carded and receive a fine + ban.

What age would you apply the laws properly then? U13? U14? It is impossible to draw a line anywhere as you cannot really say that you will give them a talking to when the kids are 13, for example, but just a couple of months later you will start carding them. Not only that, but to me there is no 'moral' difference between punching an opponent and DOGSO at that level. I would perhaps be more annoyed if I was clean through and about to score before a defender wipes me out from behind. It seems unfair that the defender in that scenario gets absolutely no punishment but I could turn around in anger, have a swipe and get sent off. Both should be red cards IMO. And what if I had just 'instinctively' punched somebody without thinking about the consequences? I'm sure in that case you would still look to send me off.
 
Then @hattersfan I see you not going far my starting point is as soon they start playing u10 football that is where my lenience for red cards start but I think in there first 3 years in football is where we try to educate then the full of laws on yellow cards for reckless or persistent infringement starts so just try to think about your actions before you reach 17 because otherwise you won't be doing lines or middles in higher levels
 
ref craig said:
Then @hattersfan I see you not going far my starting point is as soon they start playing u10 football that is where my lenience for red cards start but I think in there first 3 years in football is where we try to educate then the full of laws on yellow cards for reckless or persistent infringement starts so just try to think about your actions before you reach 17 because otherwise you won't be doing lines or middles in higher levels
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Firstly Craig, I don't think it is up to you to decide how far people go within the game. For someone who I have read suffers from confidence issues I would certainly think you would have the decency to not belittle someone due to their style of refereeing.

Personally I agree in the most part with his philosophy. When refereeing children under the age of 13/14 we as referees are there to facilitate a game, educate the children in the LOTG and create an environment where talent is allowed to prosper. Giving a red or yellow card does not create an atmosphere where this is allowed to happen. I think some of you underestimate how much of an effect a stern talking to or asking them to be taken off for a bit can have on such young, impressionable children. I certainly remember the first time I received a yellow at the age of 15 I was mortified! Cards should gradually be brought into the game as children mature and become more aware of their actions. Yes I would send off a 14 year old (and have done) for Violent Conduct...but for a rule as technical as DOGSO?? Certainly not! We are looking to allow the next generation of young, english talent to prosper....the only way they will do that is by allowing them to kick that round object on that big green thing!

So I suppose you don't see me going far then? Or getting middles in 'higher leagues'...?
 
I've sent a player this year for dogso at u14 but compared to all reds I've given this is one I felt sorry for the player
 
And what was the reaction to this decision? I also believe you have failed to answer a large chunk of my post in relation to your attitude to other referees!
 
There reaction was it should of been yellow. well what I believe then is that I know referees at the top are told not to caution a player a player for dissent and then some referees play for club marks as well which I think is destroying the integrity of football when I referee I go out to referee to best of my ability and to follow the laws of game to the letter that is my opinion to other referees
 
This would be a reaction that I would expect, give him a yellow...he learns his lesson and stays on the pitch! A yellow for a 14 year old evokes a reaction that is is in many ways similar to giving a red to an adult. The biggest advice I can give to you as I see you are just starting out is to referee with common sense or else life in grassroots football will become intolerable and painful. You bring up the point of 'what referees at the top are told'. Without disrespecting anyone or causing too many shocks...we are not at the top! Referee to your level and to the expectations of those around you...whether it be players, managers or assessors alike. No person in their right mind referees a bunch of 14 year olds in the same way they would referee 'El Classico'. I know there will be those that get on their high horse and say we must referee to our set of objective laws but this is simply not a realistic and far too idealistic. When you start hitting the realms of 'Senior football' at the likes of Level 5/4 or above this is perhaps when it is time to approach the game as if you were refereeing at the top level. At this point football becomes far much more than just enjoyment and takes on various other aspects such as business and even where in some areas players receive payment to play. I know this may be a bitter pill to swallow but I am seriously just trying to give out sound advice which I have picked up, practiced and I'd like to think it hasn't served me too badly given my achievements thus far.
 
participation.

that's what junior/youth football is supposed to be about. not winning or losing, not medals or relegation. how are we as referees encouraging participation if we're sending 12 year olds off for DOGSO?

on that note how can anyone describe a challenge made by a 12 year old as "reckless" or having "intent"?
 
I think we warn them first rich and teach them what they done wrong then second reckless then one more with captain then caution if they do it again
 
haywain said:
So how far do we have to go before we get to send off the wrong player ?
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Mistakes are unfortunately made at every level. However hopefully less are made the further you progress in your career. Therefore higher leagues should contain less refereeing errors. Mistaken identity is not down to a lack of refereeing ability but due to human error, something which each and every one of us can fall foul to!
 
Richthekeeper said:
participation.

that's what junior/youth football is supposed to be about. not winning or losing, not medals or relegation. how are we as referees encouraging participation if we're sending 12 year olds off for DOGSO?

on that note how can anyone describe a challenge made by a 12 year old as "reckless" or having "intent"?
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An 8 yr old can make a reckless challenge.......they can also make a dangerous challenge, just as easily, or easier in fact, than a 16 yr old. Easier because they don't fully realise or understand what they are doing.

Intent has nothing to do with it.......it doesn't feature AFAIK in the LOTG in relation to reckless or dangerous challenges. Besides every player will tell you "I didn't mean to..."!

“Reckless” means that the player has acted with complete disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent. This is perfectly possible to achieve if you are an 8 yr old, much less 12.....so your comment about them not being able to make a reckless challenge is inaccurate.

How you deal with it is another matter altogether. At 8 yrs old, you should be explaining why the challenge is not acceptable, at 12, they should have a good idea of what is and isn't acceptable......

The problem is that often the fault lies with the coaches, not the players. The coaches often blame the referees for being too harsh and don't address the root cause which is their players inability to challenge fairly!
 
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