A&H

Junior/Youth Player walking away when trying to caution him

ref craig said:
Ciley myrus if a player is dissenting he has lost my respect
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Respect is a two way thing and as referee, you need to earn it. Demanding a player walk 80 yards to you is not likely to endear yourself to him in any way at all. Again though, if it works for you, that's fine. If you can show me a top level clip of this kind of caution for dissent then that would be good, as any game at top levels where I see a card for dissent, its done respectfully, indeed, even in say Champ League, am sure you have seen, say, a referee caution a gk for delaying restart (goal kick?) where ref flashes a card from centre circle without bringing the gk up to the centre circle. Granted its not the ideal and taught caution technique but the ref would not bring the goalie 45 yards up the park to show him a card then let him sulk all the way back to the 6 yard box, one, it wastes more time than the intended delaying of play, and, 2, its disrespectful !!! then again what would the top guys know...
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
then again what would the top guys know...
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Then again, 99% of referees aren't at the top and what is seen on the tele isnt neccessarily good practise at the lower levels.
Wth regards time wasting from the keeper I wouldnt make him walk 45-50 yards to me as he hasnt walked 45-50 yards away.
I'd stop my watch, making it clear i had done so and make my way to him. Administer the sanction then get in position and restart my watch on the restart of play.
In a case of dissent and a player walking away when I have asked him to stay then why am I then going to build a bridge and meet him halfway remembering that it was him that walked away in the first place. Yes there are times when meeting halfway can be beneficial but in most cases its someone having a strop and walking off they can have the ealk of shame to come back to me.
Things are obviously very different north of the border if waving yellow cards from the halfway line is acceptable but here in England we have a set caution procedure which we are expected to adhere too, isolate offender, name number, explain caution, administer sanction i.e. show he card.
 
I meant Champ League they flash card from half way line

Each to own but I would always do everything to meet player half way, treat people as you would like to be treated, respect is a mutual thing and if the player is not showing you it, all the more reason for you to show them it, otherwise, you are sinking to their level and all respect is lost.
 
Respect is earnt and that works both ways. If a player doesnt want to show respect then why should he get any in return?
I am always respectful to players but sometimes, particularly when there is a procedure to be followed, there is a need to display a show of authority, and if it means calling a player back to the vicinity they were previously in, then so be it.
Like you say though its what works for individual people and if it works for you stick with it.
 
Because, you are the leader out there, you are the all mighty, you are the one who should set the tolerance and guideline for what is acceptable, if the other players see you disrespecting another player then how can you gain their respect in return. Football refereeing is not a tit for tat game, you really want players (of both sides) to watch and go "look at the way he is treating him?" Again, if the old saying of treat people who you wish to be treated rings true, then, you have now set your marker of how you expect to be treated. Your not out there to compete with the players, you are there to work with them, to manage them, authority is one thing, but disrespectfulness is something else. It is possible to be firm and fair, without effectively humiliating anyone. I guess that's a skill in itself.
 
Personally I will try and meet players half way, mainly as most of the time I see no benefit from making them do the walk of shame, and also to separate them from other players, and to allow me to move into a position that allows me to keep all the other players in front of me.

But, sometimes the walk of shame can be beneficial, if for example you need to stamp your aurthority on the match and to make it clear to the players who is in charge. A bit like killing the game for 10 minutes if things are starting to get a bit feisty etc. Although I agree that it's rarely necessary to do this.
 
I'm with Ciley's use of respect 95% of the time, and will always meet a player somewhere neutral when issuing a caution, but the situation under discussion here is the one exception. If you have a player standing next to you as you try to issue a caution and he sulkily starts to walk away, that's a very clear show of dissent. And in my book, you only have two options at that point: the strictest bollocking you can come up with, or a second card and send him off. Anything less is accepting his show of dissent - and that includes trying to manage the situation by meeting him half way.

If this happens to me, I'm giving a big blast on my whistle and a firm "Back here until I'm finished please player". If that doesn't work, I'll call the captain over and warn him that if I have to go to his player, I'll be issuing a second yellow for dissent by action. And then we wait and see. And all this time, I'm not moving from the spot I've picked - if I have to do so, it's two yellows and off, but fortunately, the captain will usually make the player see sense before I have to take such drastic action.
 
GraemeS said:
I'm with Ciley's use of respect 95% of the time, and will always meet a player somewhere neutral when issuing a caution, but the situation under discussion here is the one exception. If you have a player standing next to you as you try to issue a caution and he sulkily starts to walk away, that's a very clear show of dissent. And in my book, you only have two options at that point: the strictest bollocking you can come up with, or a second card and send him off. Anything less is accepting his show of dissent - and that includes trying to manage the situation by meeting him half way.

If this happens to me, I'm giving a big blast on my whistle and a firm "Back here until I'm finished please player". If that doesn't work, I'll call the captain over and warn him that if I have to go to his player, I'll be issuing a second yellow for dissent by action. And then we wait and see. And all this time, I'm not moving from the spot I've picked - if I have to do so, it's two yellows and off, but fortunately, the captain will usually make the player see sense before I have to take such drastic action.
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Head. Nail. Mr S.
 
Had an U18 walk away while giving a dressing down with the captain in attendance easy yellow card. No gobby players after that! Although there was no dissent from the teams and the rollicking was for reactions
 
I had an observer the other week who gave me a tip from the the top observers in our fair country. He told me, in the top leagues, observers want the ref to move to cut off the player as they walk away, rather than usher them in or try to wrangle them closer to a new location.

I like the logic of this. Defenders always turn their backs and move towards goal. Why run to the spot of the foul when you can run a few yards further, get closer to the offender's natural line of movement (not in their face) and save time by administering the sanction with their full attention. Obvs this can't work 100% of the time but I see the idea in those sulky defender cases. It also helps in those must-identify-the-player moments if you are thinking about going to the player, rather than to the spot.

I haven't had the chance to use this technique yet... let's see...
 
Boo hoo, they've dissented you, treat them with the same distain..... if they want treating like small children then lets oblige it back and make them do the walk of shame.... my respect to him isn't diminished, he's avvin it!! :devil:
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I was always advised, and always would advise, to meet halfway, show respect to player, in an attempt to get respect back in return.
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Ciley Myrus said:
Respect is a two way thing and as referee, you need to earn it. Demanding a player walk 80 yards to you is not likely to endear yourself to him in any way at all. Again though, if it works for you, that's fine. If you can show me a top level clip of this kind of caution for dissent then that would be good, as any game at top levels where I see a card for dissent, its done respectfully, indeed, even in say Champ League, am sure you have seen, say, a referee caution a gk for delaying restart (goal kick?) where ref flashes a card from centre circle without bringing the gk up to the centre circle. Granted its not the ideal and taught caution technique but the ref would not bring the goalie 45 yards up the park to show him a card then let him sulk all the way back to the 6 yard box, one, it wastes more time than the intended delaying of play, and, 2, its disrespectful !!! then again what would the top guys know...
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Couple of points......if the player is ignoring my polite request to join me for a chat/caution, then he is showing me zero respect.....I'm not going to compound his error by either chasing him around the pitch or doing anything other than standing my ground. If I can't persuade him over, i'll try his captain....if they can't persuade him either then its pretty much guaranteed at that point i'm cautioning......which is going to a real pain for the player if I was already planning to caution for an offence, because that will be the famous 3 card trick.

Also, the "top level" rarely see cards for dissent.....very rarely. Hence the almost apologetic look most elite level refs faces when they have to card for it.......

santa sangria said:
I had an observer the other week who gave me a tip from the the top observers in our fair country. He told me, in the top leagues, observers want the ref to move to cut off the player as they walk away, rather than usher them in or try to wrangle them closer to a new location.

I like the logic of this. Defenders always turn their backs and move towards goal. Why run to the spot of the foul when you can run a few yards further, get closer to the offender's natural line of movement (not in their face) and save time by administering the sanction with their full attention. Obvs this can't work 100% of the time but I see the idea in those sulky defender cases. It also helps in those must-identify-the-player moments if you are thinking about going to the player, rather than to the spot.

I haven't had the chance to use this technique yet... let's see...
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Presumably the observers will still expect you to dismiss the player if, after you've stood in their way, they push past you? Even though you didn't have to go and stand in the way of a clearly non compliant and agitated player?

Awful advice.

By all means choose your "neutral area" in which you wish to chat to the player as somewhere where you and the player can meet halfway, if you really feel inclined to go chasing after players, but to deliberately stand in their way?
 
Padfoot said:
Awful advice.
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LOL. I think you could take a little time to read what I actually wrote. If you have a dissenting, arguing player, then, of course, for a chat, and to demonstrate authority, there are various measures, like going to neutral ground.
Where the offender is doing the sheepish walk away, subtly heading them off seems like a sensible move... far from "awful".

I am watching Leganes - Atletico Madrid right now. The first yellow just got given (@48 mins) for the def wrestling Griezmann down on a break away. The ref did exactly this. As the defender got up and started walking towards his own goal, the ref moved to cut him off rather than go to the spot of the foul. Unique circumstances of course. It's a break away so the ref has to come 15+ yards anyway. He's not cutting across his path or in his face - just far enough. If he runs to the spot of the foul, the def is going to be further away. It is just common sense at this point. Far from "awful".
 
santa sangria said:
LOL. I think you could take a little time to read what I actually wrote. If you have a dissenting, arguing player, then, of course, for a chat, and to demonstrate authority, there are various measures, like going to neutral ground.
Where the offender is doing the sheepish walk away, subtly heading them off seems like a sensible move... far from "awful".

I am watching Leganes - Atletico Madrid right now. The first yellow just got given (@48 mins) for the def wrestling Griezmann down on a break away. The ref did exactly this. As the defender got up and started walking towards his own goal, the ref moved to cut him off rather than go to the spot of the foul. Unique circumstances of course. It's a break away so the ref has to come 15+ yards anyway. He's not cutting across his path or in his face - just far enough. If he runs to the spot of the foul, the def is going to be further away. It is just common sense at this point. Far from "awful".
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Surely you would indicate the position where you want the FK taken from, normally where the foul occurred then move to a neutral area, inviting the player to join you, rather than standing rooted to the spot where the foul happened?

The defender, already miffed that he has conceded a free kick, hauls himself to his feet and the first thing he encounters is the referee stood in front of him, brandishing a card? Yeah, that's bound to improve his mood. Sometimes the time and space that is given to a player by moving to neutral area and inviting the player over, can defuse a potentially petulant reaction whereas pouncing on a player immediately can provoke one.
 
Padfoot said:
Surely you would indicate the position where you want the FK taken from, normally where the foul occurred then move to a neutral area, inviting the player to join you, rather than standing rooted to the spot where the foul happened?

The defender, already miffed that he has conceded a free kick, hauls himself to his feet and the first thing he encounters is the referee stood in front of him, brandishing a card? Yeah, that's bound to improve his mood. Sometimes the time and space that is given to a player by moving to neutral area and inviting the player over, can defuse a potentially petulant reaction whereas pouncing on a player immediately can provoke one.
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You really don't understand what I have written, twice? Given that I respect your ability to analyse the written word, you are either being disingenuous, obtuse or just plain trolling. Well done, though, again. I'll be taking this ball home with me. :)
 
Ciley all due respect I can see where your coming from but however let's say I get a decision wrong and a player says something in dissent. That I deem a caution depending on what league I'm on I'll get players details show him the caution the caution in a neutral position but yes if it's a cautionable offence it's usually iver a player that's been on my back all game and got time to caution or it has been in my face and I've had enough now if it's a caution I'll try my best to move that player into a neutral position to administer my caution but if I want to make it quick usually I will do but as said before I'm not meeting a player halfway for a dissent caution end of
 
santa sangria said:
You really don't understand what I have written, twice? Given that I respect your ability to analyse the written word, you are either being disingenuous, obtuse or just plain trolling. Well done, though, again. I'll be taking this ball home with me. :)
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Maybe you didn't write what you thought you wrote....or at least maybe you know what you wanted to say but failed to word it correctly so that it is open to interpretation?
 
ref craig said:
Ciley all due respect I can see where your coming from but however let's say I get a decision wrong and a player says something in dissent. That I deem a caution depending on what league I'm on I'll get players details show him the caution the caution in a neutral position but yes if it's a cautionable offence it's usually iver a player that's been on my back all game and got time to caution or it has been in my face and I've had enough now if it's a caution I'll try my best to move that player into a neutral position to administer my caution but if I want to make it quick usually I will do but as said before I'm not meeting a player halfway for a dissent caution end of
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Sorry nothing personal but I cant picture the example you are trying to explain. What I can make out though, all harks back to something I have typed before, (and clearly its not gospel but the theory rings true), that, you rarely get dissent when you make a correct call.
So, problem solved, make the right call and you wont be cautioning this player for dissent !
 
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