Read the 'Reporting Discrimination - Guidance for grassroots players' booklet.
The use of homophobic language
- Thread starter Trip
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I think that all boils down to you as a referee. You react accordingly; you hear/see it, you deal with it. You haven't seen/heard it but it has been brought to your attention, you report it. Again, it is not down to you to determine whether the player is telling the truth. That is not your job. You are not the judge nor jury.
I learnt about most of this on the Safeguarding Course, if you are officiating youth football, you should have had the same FA presentation as I did.
I learnt about most of this on the Safeguarding Course, if you are officiating youth football, you should have had the same FA presentation as I did.
I've read that and it's very good for players. The principle outstanding question for referees is how and to whom we should report alleged incidents of homophobic (or racist) abuse that we have not heard or seen but which we have had reported to us by players. Maybe we should use the standard misconduct report?
I've asked my RDO, I'll post what he says.
Had a Double Red card incident a few years ago, tall white player manager and a combative Black midfielder. There's a tackle, a foul, they get up and start rutting, exchanging pleasantries in a clasp, I'm 20 yards away and I hit the whistle a few times to try and stop it, at this it's two yellows for AA but as I walk towards them the black player explodes and says that he's being called a BB. No one has heard this and he launches for him and punches were thrown both ways, everyone flys in to split it up and I dismiss them both, as they are walking off it nearly starts again and white player shouts that he didn't call him a BB I called you a B Cnut. Either way it was aggressive and he'd admitted what he'd said, however, he flatly denied calling him a B'stard. I'd heard neither and reported it thus. Just got the standard 3 games as it was unproven one word against another.
Apart from that I can't remember any other incidents of Ethnicity. Ever!
All the homophobic stuff tends to be light hearted banter, playground talk, we now have a President elect who uses similar. Nothing too bad IMO, I'm not condoning it but it does happen!
Apart from that I can't remember any other incidents of Ethnicity. Ever!
All the homophobic stuff tends to be light hearted banter, playground talk, we now have a President elect who uses similar. Nothing too bad IMO, I'm not condoning it but it does happen!
@Sheffields Finest , can I ask what happened after (FA approach) and whether this was reported through Kick It Out (if KIO reporting was encouraged at that time).
I had a similar incident two seasons ago when I was playing. A team mate was black and had to endure some nasty comments in one particular game.
I had a similar incident two seasons ago when I was playing. A team mate was black and had to endure some nasty comments in one particular game.
I reported it as above and let them get on with it, I wasn't called as I'd not heard either version, only the response.
We can't indulge in critism of our leaders so I'll leave it there, no issue with this one with them but we have history!
White player told me he only got the standard so i took his word for that, he did his Tib and Fib very seriously a few weeks later so he's been out a long while. I've not seen the other player since.
We can't indulge in critism of our leaders so I'll leave it there, no issue with this one with them but we have history!
White player told me he only got the standard so i took his word for that, he did his Tib and Fib very seriously a few weeks later so he's been out a long while. I've not seen the other player since.
Use the extraordinary incident report on WGS, or if you can't access WGS, send the old misconduct report form (or just email it directly) to a member of your CFA's discipline team (or even just your RDO). Just do something. Because if it gets reported to your CFA via a different route, and it turns out it was reported to you at the time and you did nothing, you will almost certainly end up being suspended yourself.
Paul March
Well-Known Member
Advice- my approach to this is to thank them for bringing it to my attention and ask them to come to the changing room after the game where I can take a statement. I then write everything they say, recording exact words used, take names and numbers then report it to CFA on necessary forms.
Perfect, thanks very much Alex. Out of interest, how did you learn about that form?
Spot on. You also never know who is lurking at the ground taking notes.
If you hear it, report it. If you see it, report it. If it is something that someone feels needs reporting, report it. Again, we are not judge nor jury and because we may not have been exposed to an incident, certainly doesn't mean that it hasn't occurred. Cover your back, report it and let the powers that be follow it up in their own way.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
I understand your sentiment here Alex, but your logic fails you.
A player sent off for SFP as you describe above is dismissed for exactly that. It's no business of the referee's that he "retaliated".
Individuals are responsible for their own actions. You are not responsible for any of them - or their feelings for that matter.
Leave the Nanny Statism to the Nanny State .....
/pickmicI understand your sentiment here Alex, but your logic fails you.
A player sent off for SFP as you describe above is dismissed for exactly that. It's no business of the referee's that he "retaliated".
Individuals are responsible for their own actions. You are not responsible for any of them - or their feelings for that matter.
Leave the Nanny Statism to the Nanny State .....
Stepping back into this thread to get rid of this type of thought process.
If you treat the original incident with sensitivity, explain that you haven't heard anything but will report the matter to the County FA, you are using preventative refereeing which may just stop the offended individual from exacting his own revenge on the field.
If referees addressed initial offences correctly, then we may have fewer retaliation incidents to deal with. You are responsible for this type of action by failing to manage it correctly in the first place.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Enter the Nanny State.
Adults are responsible for their own actions Brian. End of. What if the ref didn't hear it? Mr Vengeful would still feel the same. I totally get it, I really do - but there's no way I'm responsible for the willful violent actions of another adult. ...
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
You've pulled my chain with this one.
Going back to the OP and subsequent discussion it seems that you are "condoning it" by not red carding homophobic insults, when the guidance is clear. Yes, it's playground talk to call someone a "poof". But it's also a red card mate.
You have cited the President elect as a reason why homophobic insults (and presumably racist slurs?) might be acceptable, or lighthearted.
I will tell you now - in all seriousness. I disagree on this. And I think there are millions and millions of people who believe the same. I am willing to fight for freedom of sexuality and religion. I will fight you on this here. I will fight the President elect. Happily. I won't be taking up arms to fight a phony war in Iraq or the South China Sea or whatever they come up with next. But I will fight for the rights of poofs, queens, and people of colour, whatever shade of blue that may be.
Lots of people around the UK have used the Brexit vote as a justification for normalising racist behavior. And now we are seeing people around the world using a US electoral college victory as a justification for normalising homophobic, racist and misogynist behavior. I don't think this is acceptable. In law and in football law it's not acceptable either. Of course, there seems to be some exceptions, like Erdogan's Turkey, Putin's Russia. Again, in all seriousness, I think a lot of people are willing to fight to stop their country becoming like Erdogan's Turkey or Putin's Russia. Sorry for the politics here but I think it is relevant.
(I'm glad you haven't experienced many racist incidents. I live in a country where there hasn't been much immigration and integration. The football field is one of the few places where countries with loaded history come together (Finns, Swedes, Russians, Estonians) plus migrant workers (western european, south american) and refugee background immigrants (Somalians, Kurds etc.). Incidents are still rare but we have to be aware. One thing that is actually brilliant is that refereeing here probably has a greater share of ethnic minority workers than any other industry I know
)This quote, which I assume comes from an FA qualified referee, is perhaps the best evidence I've seen so far that FA qualified referees are not necessarily well trained to handle incidents of homophobic abuse.
Or they choose not to listen/follow the guidelines?
What training have you received out of interest Trip? If you Referee youth football, I'd assume you have been CRB checked and have even on the safeguarding course. Did you learn about this sort of thing on the course?
I think, if you feel that Diversity & Inclusion training is required, you should get in contact with your RDO and get him/her to run a course. You'd be surprised how much the training could help
Easy Tiger...Seems you are in the Electrol College System minority in being terminally offended by Mr Drumpf, He's a dinosaur, an actor, a fake, a liar and all the other stuff we can throw at him, unfortunately millions of people have chose to ignore all that stuff and are wanting change. You seem to presume a lot of what I have said in the last (rant) post, thats fine, you can think what you like, we are in a free world. you are entitled to your opinion.
To answer all your questions, no, i'm not trained on anything like that, I must of missed the memo, TBF I don't think I've been offered a single bit of advice from anyone at my County FA on anything. EVER.... I personally lost any respect for them 4-5 years ago in a previous disgusting incident that ended up in me appealing TWO team disciplinary when they can't even follow there own Boss's advice in London or a perfectly Legal request for legal information that they refused to give when they were told to give it to me.
This ended in a 30minute conversation with a very senior person in London with a quote that they base disciplinary on... 'The Balance of Probability'..... and that is the problem with most of this when there is an acquisition and a denial...
To answer all your questions, no, i'm not trained on anything like that, I must of missed the memo, TBF I don't think I've been offered a single bit of advice from anyone at my County FA on anything. EVER.... I personally lost any respect for them 4-5 years ago in a previous disgusting incident that ended up in me appealing TWO team disciplinary when they can't even follow there own Boss's advice in London or a perfectly Legal request for legal information that they refused to give when they were told to give it to me.
This ended in a 30minute conversation with a very senior person in London with a quote that they base disciplinary on... 'The Balance of Probability'..... and that is the problem with most of this when there is an acquisition and a denial...
@DB I don't referee youth football any more but I did take the safeguarding children workshop when I qualified (in February 2011). As far as I recall there was no mention of racial or homophobic abuse but I could be wrong about that, it was a while ago.
When I started looking at the FA website for information about homophobia a few days ago I was impressed with the amount of information available. My initial question was answered very quickly - it's a red card, no ifs or buts. But I was struck by two things - firstly that I'd never been told that before, and secondly that players were being encouraged to report incidents of homophobia to me assuming that I'd been trained in what to do about it (even if I hadn't heard or seen it).
Assuming that @Alex Rush-Fear is right about the report forms I think I'm now fairly well prepared for this situation but for the FA to claim that homophobia "is a red card offence and referees are trained to manage situations where it arises" is clearly not true, at least not for all referees. Pointing this out is not an abdication of responsibility or a requirement to be spoon fed reporting mechanisms. It is a sad fact.
When I started looking at the FA website for information about homophobia a few days ago I was impressed with the amount of information available. My initial question was answered very quickly - it's a red card, no ifs or buts. But I was struck by two things - firstly that I'd never been told that before, and secondly that players were being encouraged to report incidents of homophobia to me assuming that I'd been trained in what to do about it (even if I hadn't heard or seen it).
Assuming that @Alex Rush-Fear is right about the report forms I think I'm now fairly well prepared for this situation but for the FA to claim that homophobia "is a red card offence and referees are trained to manage situations where it arises" is clearly not true, at least not for all referees. Pointing this out is not an abdication of responsibility or a requirement to be spoon fed reporting mechanisms. It is a sad fact.
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