Match 3 - Spain : Portugal

[Ciley Myrus]

Rusty has summed up my points on the dissent better than I can

We might never know, but I would be very confident in saying last nights observer report/debfrief will make no critiscim of not cautioning Ronaldo, and the ref will get another two games min, and is a candidate for at least a semi game too

So if that now the ref, obsever, folk in the debrief, and for the 0.5% its worth, me, being weak and cowardly with dissent, thats fine, our small boat can sail into the night as Rusty says, content we played our part in a sensational game, got handshakes all round and managed the occasion in front of us.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I wonder if Ian Hume finds that video funny if memory serves me right or it could be Leon Pryce

Probably a poor mans John Terry in stature and mixing it. Not many like him now. He was a walking card TBF. Ronnie didn’t like it though and offered him his shirt during the game!

 

[Mintyref]

Your opinion, I think you are wrong but I will still respect your opinion. If your boss tells you to do something that your principles don't agree with, and he won't listen to reason, what do you do? Quit your job or change your principles, the vast majority will do the former.

Doesn't make it right though does it Rusty?

 

[Ciley Myrus]

You do realise that the foul wasn’t worthy of a caution?

You do realise that just because the pundits say it’s a caution, doesn’t make it so?

Its so much of a caution that the guy who fouled him puts his hands up straight away ready to accept his card. Its a tactical foul, trip the danger man as soon as he looks like he about to destroy your team, a take one for the team trip, high enough up the park that he cant shoot from the fk and gentle enough that you knos your getting a yc and not risking a red. If you are bored enough, 58 mins 30 onwards on the bbc iplayer full match, total textbook definition of stopping a promising attack by tripping an opponent.

When Ronaldo gets the ball where he does, the Spanish midfield are charged with stopping him going any further up the park. Thats their role. Thats tactics. Ideally they want to force him back or make him play a quick pass, but the moment it seems he is going to stream roll towards the defence, he must be stopped, legally or illrgally, anybody with a syringe drip worth of football knowledge recognises this.


Does it excuse Ronaldos actions and make them ok? Of course not. Do two wrongs make a right? In this case yes, dealing with both players the same (i.e no card) shown total feeling for the game and as Rusty says correctly, at that level, its not about knowing what a caution is, its about knowing when to do it....

Its written in stone that these guys know what a caution looks like, their skill and expertise is in knowing when to do it. Something you wont understand unless you been in their shoes

 

[Goldfish]

VAR is an assistant referee using a mic.
On the penalty referee had a clear view and made the call. VAR would have looked at it and agreed with the call. Correct decision for me. Stick out a leg out into the players path and this is always going to happen even if the player has his arms above his head pleading avoidance.
On the Pepe incident it was reviewed and not enough there for an overturn. Contact was exaggerated by Pepe which did not help his case. slow mo video also exaggerates contact.
I think VAR worked well to assist the referee. It is how it should work with minimum interference on the game. Let the referee get on with refereeing and help him out on any obvious error. That is what happened last night and resulted in no real complaints from either side and an enjoyable game. Six goals and no lengthy review delays.

 

[santa sangria]

Damning...but not certain. I'm not completely certain that there was contact to the face. There was a raised forearm, yes, but that could also have got him on the shoulder/chest/collarbone - and I'm not seeing a push. So it either got him in the face, in which case it's a foul, or it didn't. And I can't tell from this video.

I think 'clear and obvious' really means 'inarguable'. I think that while this angle means a foul is likely, it's not inarguable.

I fundamentally disagree. This vid shows Costa leading with the arm to the upper reaches of the body with no attempt to play the ball. It’s not 50-50, he does not challenge for the ball, only fouls the opponent.

 

[Padfoot]

Rusty has summed up my points on the dissent better than I can

We might never know, but I would be very confident in saying last nights observer report/debfrief will make no critiscim of not cautioning Ronaldo, and the ref will get another two games min, and is a candidate for at least a semi game too

So if that now the ref, obsever, folk in the debrief, and for the 0.5% its worth, me, being weak and cowardly with dissent, thats fine, our small boat can sail into the night as Rusty says, content we played our part in a sensational game, got handshakes all round and managed the occasion in front of us.

And knowing that because of that weakness, or the selling of your integrity to further your career, means that on Sunday numerous referees,,who will do the job properly, will get abused and/or assaulted because the troglodytes see their idols get alway with it, week in & week out, feel aggrieved that they aren’t allowed to get away with it.

Yeah, I can see how that would provoke feelings of contentment......

 

[Ciley Myrus]

And knowing that because of that weakness, or the selling of your integrity to further your career, means that on Sunday numerous referees,,who will do the job properly, will get abused and/or assaulted because the troglodytes see their idols get alway with it, week in & week out, feel aggrieved that they aren’t allowed to get away with it.

Yeah, I can see how that would provoke feelings of contentment......

Reffing elite WC is not the same as grass roots pub matches!
You can class that ref as weak. I would say the ref committee have him pencilled in for the final. Assuming Brych gets sent home as Germany progress. Who kniws best, a ref commitee for the whole of the world.
Or you...

 

[RustyRef]

And knowing that because of that weakness, or the selling of your integrity to further your career, means that on Sunday numerous referees,,who will do the job properly, will get abused and/or assaulted because the troglodytes see their idols get alway with it, week in & week out, feel aggrieved that they aren’t allowed to get away with it.

Yeah, I can see how that would provoke feelings of contentment......

I referee Sunday mornings and I get very little dissent. That isn't because I wave cards around like confetti, rather I make it clear to players early doors what they can and can't get away with. That is no different to what Rocchi was doing last night with the stern words and pointing of fingers. It worked, and he kept complete control of a difficult game between two countries that don't really like each other.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I had one of those Ancestry profiles done the other year, I’m 4% Iberian Peninsula, not sure if that’s Spain or Portugal specifically so I think a draw suited both sides!

 

[Padfoot]

Reffing elite WC is not the same as grass roots pub matches!
You can class that ref as weak. I would say the ref committee have him pencilled in for the final. Assuming Brych gets sent home as Germany progress. Who kniws best, a ref commitee for the whole of the world.
Or you...

I referee Sunday mornings and I get very little dissent. That isn't because I wave cards around like confetti, rather I make it clear to players early doors what they can and can't get away with. That is no different to what Rocchi was doing last night with the stern words and pointing of fingers. It worked, and he kept complete control of a difficult game between two countries that don't really like each other.

So you’re both disputing that the performance of players and referees in the televised games influences, and contributes to, the appalling statistics of abuse and assault that are ever increasing in the grassroots game?

No wonder things will never change with such apologists in the game.

 

[GraemeS]

I referee Sunday mornings and I get very little dissent. That isn't because I wave cards around like confetti, rather I make it clear to players early doors what they can and can't get away with. That is no different to what Rocchi was doing last night with the stern words and pointing of fingers. It worked, and he kept complete control of a difficult game between two countries that don't really like each other.

But this is my point, he didn't!

2 or 3 minutes after he lets Ronaldo off, he gets both barrels from a Spain defender over a perfectly correct decision and doesn't feel empowered to do anything more than point at him as well. Are you really telling me that when someone dissents your decision, either showing a yellow card or pointing at them are considered to be equally good ways of dealing with it? It might only have been for 10 minutes, but he absolutely lost control of backchat for that time last night and it's pure luck it didn't escalate further.

I'm sorry, but Ronaldo's response displays all the hallmarks of dissent and it's an easy easy call to make. No ref in the world would have argued if he had pulled the card out? You've talked about making it clear to players early doors - and what this ref did was make it clear to the players that he was never going to pull out a yellow for dissent.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Imagine Padders getting the instruction before the game to ease up on carding for dissent!

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Lost control!!!

Guys just taken charge of the most thrilling WC game we will prob see, viewers worldwide are still staring open jawed at what they just saw, we have no injuries, no CR walking a suspension tightrope ( meaning he can continue to be the biggest draw the football world has ever seen) and as far as I saw, it was warm embraces to and from ref at end from all.

Nobody at that level wants Ronaldo cautioned for dissent. And thats the level this referee is officiating at.
Same as the Dutch ref "allowing" that outrageous dive in the game before

You cannot compare last nights game to what you do on a Sunday. You can only referee whats in front of YOU

 

[Padfoot]

Lost control!!!

Guys just taken charge of the most thrilling WC game we will prob see, viewers worldwide are still staring open jawed at what they just saw, we have no injuries, no CR walking a suspension tightrope ( meaning he can continue to be the biggest draw the football world has ever seen) and as far as I saw, it was warm embraces to and from ref at end from all.

Nobody at that level wants Ronaldo cautioned for dissent. And thats the level this referee is officiating at.
Same as the Dutch ref "allowing" that outrageous dive in the game before

You cannot compare last nights game to what you do on a Sunday. You can only referee whats in front of YOU

And that’s the problem right there.....and that’s why you’ll get players at grassroots level, both youth and adult, emulating that behaviour........and then getting even more irate when they do get cautioned.....

 

[Ciley Myrus]

And that’s the problem right there.....and that’s why you’ll get players at grassroots level, both youth and adult, emulating that behaviour........and then getting even more irate when they do get cautioned.....

At grass roots I would expect a yc for the tackle (did u watch it bk and read the reasoning for the foul?), And giving that caution cuts out the dissent/fustration which would follow if you under reacted.
Everything is relative.

 

[Padfoot]

At grass roots I would expect a yc for the tackle (did u watch it bk and read the reasoning for the foul?), And giving that caution cuts out the dissent/fustration which would follow if you under reacted.
Everything is relative.

Given that Ronaldo was already making a card gesture while still on the floor.....no, a caution for the challenge wouldn’t have negated the need to caution for dissent.

Take your pick whether you’re carding for the gestures on the floor or the aggressive dissent afterwards.....either way, it’s a nailed on caution for dissent.....whereas this mythical caution for the challenge is far more dubious.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Given that Ronaldo was already making a card gesture while still on the floor.....no, a caution for the challenge wouldn’t have negated the need to caution for dissent.

Take your pick whether you’re carding for the gestures on the floor or the aggressive dissent afterwards.....either way, it’s a nailed on caution for dissent.....whereas this mythical caution for the challenge is far more dubious.

U still cant fathom the foul itself was card worthy and why....

 

[Big Cat]

I'm with Padfoot on this one. Ronaldo, aside from being one of the world's most adept cheats, he shouldn't be afforded special treatment with regards to tolerating dissent. Players around the world will copy his antics, so all the more reason to clamp down

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I’ve had a few pretty boy strikers give me the hissy fit treatment but If they crossed my aggressive dissent line I didn’t care what minute it was or how pretty or right he thought he was, he’s getting my digits drawing his name in my book. If that’s bad game management then that’s why I’d never make it to the top!