Friendlies are starting - what guidance have you got?

[santa sangria]

In different countries football is starting at different levels, I have friendlies starting tomorrow.

Here's an extract translated from the Finnish guidance - just the on-field part. The rest of the guidance is pretty logical about travel, pre and post match etc.

--
6. ACTIVITIES ON THE FIELD
- Only players, the officials and the necessary team personnel are allowed on the field. Parents of children and other spectators should be in a separate viewing area or outside the playing area.
- No presentations and no handshakes before or after the match.
- Take recommended safety distances into account with the placement of necessary staff (scorers, announcers, ball girls/boys, etc.)
- Avoid close contact at goal celebrations
- No mass gatherings e.g. if there is an injury or incident
- Spitting should be avoided
- If possible, try to avoid touching your face with your hands. Wipe sweat off with a sleeve or sweatband
- At the end of the match, both teams and the referees should leave the playing area as soon as possible while maintaining safety distances
- Violations of these guidelines should be addressed primarily orally
---
(In Finland, we have recommended safety distance of 1-2m, and a public gathering limit of 50 people)

Have you got info like this yet, what do you think?

 

[Russell Jones]

In different countries football is starting at different levels, I have friendlies starting tomorrow.

Here's an extract translated from the Finnish guidance - just the on-field part. The rest of the guidance is pretty logical about travel, pre and post match etc.

--
6. ACTIVITIES ON THE FIELD
- Only players, the officials and the necessary team personnel are allowed on the field. Parents of children and other spectators should be in a separate viewing area or outside the playing area.
- No presentations and no handshakes before or after the match.
- Take recommended safety distances into account with the placement of necessary staff (scorers, announcers, ball girls/boys, etc.)
- Avoid close contact at goal celebrations
- No mass gatherings e.g. if there is an injury or incident
- Spitting should be avoided
- If possible, try to avoid touching your face with your hands. Wipe sweat off with a sleeve or sweatband
- At the end of the match, both teams and the referees should leave the playing area as soon as possible while maintaining safety distances
- Violations of these guidelines should be addressed primarily orally
---
(In Finland, we have recommended safety distance of 1-2m, and a public gathering limit of 50 people)

Have you got info like this yet, what do you think?

Nothing like that for us yet .. but these seem entirely manageable and sensible. Only thing it doesn't mention is technical area protocol. Not sure how that is best handled when often the only area that is undercover is generally full of closely packed subs / officials.

Can't wait .... it's been too long!

 

[santa sangria]

Nothing like that for us yet .. but these seem entirely manageable and sensible. Only thing it doesn't mention is technical area protocol. Not sure how that is best handled when often the only area that is undercover is generally full of closely packed subs / officials.

Can't wait .... it's been too long!

That was only section 6 of 10 - and for "grassroots" and youth - not big football. In #5, poor translation:

---
5. SAFE SPACES AND HYGIENE

- The technical area can be expanded with additional benches or chairs to achieve good safety distancing
- Separate warm-up areas for substitutes - avoid substitutes crossing in front of the other team’s technical area (rotate back and / or warm-up at their own end)
- Checking players' equipment before the match is better done outdoors, taking into account the safety distance. Players should present their equipment at the safety distance from the official.
- The coin toss is performed taking into account safety distance. Only the referee and the captains will take part.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

The thing I going to find awkward is, am quite a proactive referee and one attribute I have always had is, being close to the foul, and, being a presence to defuse any potential physical reaction, for example, using arm as a barrier between the players, am also not slow to separate feuding players ( whether this is advisable or not is a different subject),

i would find it strange basically allowing confrontation and then dealing with it, rather than, preventing it.

unless our new Utopic planet means players wont become aggressive to each other in the first place

Be interesting too when the need to warn two players at once arises, or even issue a public warning to one, shout it from a distance, rather than the quiet word?

will be a new experience thats for sure..

 

[lincs22]

I would have brilliant under these conditions. I never got close to an incident, other players or worked up a sweat. Standing in the centre circle, all I would have to change is move when they want to kick-off

 

[Ciley Myrus]

I would have brilliant under these conditions. I never got close to an incident, other players or worked up a sweat. Standing in the centre circle, all I would have to change is move when they want to kick-off

Hope your doing ok in these trying times Jon Moss

 

[santa sangria]

The thing I going to find awkward is, am quite a proactive referee and one attribute I have always had is, being close to the foul, and, being a presence to defuse any potential physical reaction, for example, using arm as a barrier between the players, am also not slow to separate feuding players ( whether this is advisable or not is a different subject),

i would find it strange basically allowing confrontation and then dealing with it, rather than, preventing it.

unless our new Utopic planet means players wont become aggressive to each other in the first place

Be interesting too when the need to warn two players at once arises, or even issue a public warning to one, shout it from a distance, rather than the quiet word?

will be a new experience thats for sure..

Well, on our guidance, it doesn’t say we have a mandatory exclusion zone. 1-2m distanced is only a recommendation here. Presumably, in the UK, when contact sport is allowed, then the 1.5m ”rule” will also be changed to a recommendation.

It doesn’t say not to approach a player or not to separate fighting players.

Also, as my refsec said, we are not the corona police.

Calm, empathy, common sense.

In the end IMHO it’s all a charade. I’ve read research saying don’t walk 4m behind someone shedding if you want to guarantee you won’t be infected. In the end, the parents, players, officials are all taking a degree of risk by restarting. We don’t have tests like the pros.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Well, on our guidance, it doesn’t say we have a mandatory exclusion zone. 1-2m distanced is only a recommendation here. Presumably, in the UK, when contact sport is allowed, then the 1.5m ”rule” will also be changed to a recommendation.

It doesn’t say not to approach a player or not to separate fighting players.

Also, as my refsec said, we are not the corona police.

Calm, empathy, common sense.

In the end IMHO it’s all a charade. I’ve read research saying don’t walk 4m behind someone shedding if you want to guarantee you won’t be infected. In the end, the parents, players, officials are all taking a degree of risk by restarting. We don’t have tests like the pros.

i think you summed it up nicely, as refs, we are adults and 99% if not 100% of us ( cos there is always one), are aware of the risk and will make our own informed decisions.

no guideance here yet but if am going on the park, am refereeing, same as if the players are on, they are playing, to the level and ability that we have.

 

[lincs22]

Hope your doing ok in these trying times Jon Moss

Jon had nothing on me. Some of my matches would have benefited from a deck chair.......

 

[GraemeS]

If the rumours are to be believed, virtually EVERY death is being classed as COVid so we've stopped having heart attacks and strokes and normal flu deaths!! No actual checks on dead people from care homes etc. Its a bloody mess, all these R numbers are just speculation and guesswork on spreadsheets, they haven't got a bloody clue as only 2 million have ever been tested and they could get it the next day even if they were negative on the teat day. I'm happy that there is a better approach in Finland and common sense is returning, send us a bit here please!!!

Most sensible reports are using the concept of "excess deaths" when compared with an average over this part of the year in the last 5/10 years. The idea is that it not only counts covid deaths that obviously wouldn't have happened in those previous years, but also that it accounts for people who died of things (yes, like heart attacks and strokes) that they would otherwise have survived if healthcare capacity hadn't been compromised by the virus.

Yes, it would be sensible and obvious to have both that value and the actual "covid-deaths" value available, but as you quite rightly point out, the govt have been incredibly slow at creating testing capacity and incredibly vague in explaining who should get tested - so we don't know. Covid deaths is the number that tells us what the disease is actually doing, so obviously would be incredibly helpful to know. But that doesn't mean the concept of "excess deaths" is invalid or a media conspiracy - it's just a part of the puzzle that helps us work out how badly we've been hit.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Most sensible reports are using the concept of "excess deaths" when compared with an average over this part of the year in the last 5/10 years. The idea is that it not only counts covid deaths that obviously wouldn't have happened in those previous years, but also that it accounts for people who died of things (yes, like heart attacks and strokes) that they would otherwise have survived if healthcare capacity hadn't been compromised by the virus.

Yes, it would be sensible and obvious to have both that value and the actual "covid-deaths" value available, but as you quite rightly point out, the govt have been incredibly slow at creating testing capacity and incredibly vague in explaining who should get tested - so we don't know. Covid deaths is the number that tells us what the disease is actually doing, so obviously would be incredibly helpful to know. But that doesn't mean the concept of "excess deaths" is invalid or a media conspiracy - it's just a part of the puzzle that helps us work out how badly we've been hit.

Maybe we are being more honest than other countries?? Or more gullible in counting everything?? Our press are incessant in wanting graphs and targets met. It clearly can't be right that we have had 20,000+ deaths in care homes and other countries have had none?? I'm not saying we've done a great job but other countries seem to have coped far better...

 

[Sheffields Finest]

.......Up to 5.6million people in England could have already had the coronavirus, according to results of a government-run surveillance scheme.

Blood samples taken from almost 8,000 people suggest up to 10 per cent of the country have antibodies specific to Covid-19, showing they have had the disease in the past.

Public Health England's best estimate is that 8.5 per cent of people in England have already had the coronavirus - 4.76million people. But this, it admitted, could be as high as 10 per cent (5.6m) or as low as 6.9 per cent (3.864m).

......So, its all statistical guesswork then!!

 

[RustyRef]

.......Up to 5.6million people in England could have already had the coronavirus, according to results of a government-run surveillance scheme.

Blood samples taken from almost 8,000 people suggest up to 10 per cent of the country have antibodies specific to Covid-19, showing they have had the disease in the past.

Public Health England's best estimate is that 8.5 per cent of people in England have already had the coronavirus - 4.76million people. But this, it admitted, could be as high as 10 per cent (5.6m) or as low as 6.9 per cent (3.864m).

......So, its all statistical guesswork then!!

It will vary from place to place as well. I'm certain the percentage is going to be very high in London, the virus was spreading like wildfire there whilst people were packed onto trains and tubes every day, and socialising in pubs, bars, restaurants, etc. If you were on of those travelling in and out of London every day it would be pretty much impossible not to be exposed to it at some point.

 

[santa sangria]

Well, I had a match, Apart from the lack of handshakes at the start and end of the match, it was as usual.
(We only have a recommendation to stay 1-2m apart in public. And we supposedly have a gathering limit of 50 people).

The benches sat as normal, there were maybe 30 people watching, so over 50 in the ground, which was open.
Game was OK, U15s, 1-7, a couple of good advantages, no new laws to invoke though

So, given that we have kinda voluntary guidelines here, or at least it seems there's no effort to enforce, I feel pretty weird about it TBH.

 

[RobOda]

Seems odd really.

I wonder if we'll be told to wear masks soon? Try whistling with a mask. I'm only half-joking, but, I just feel that if society is expected to maintain distance, be wary of stray water droplets and contact, and yet, we can play football more or less normally bar handshakes, it just seems... I dunno wrong?

I have no guidance though, we're in the stage where we can't play or referee anyway since registration isn't open yet for another two and a bit weeks.

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Well, I had a match, Apart from the lack of handshakes at the start and end of the match, it was as usual.
(We only have a recommendation to stay 1-2m apart in public. And we supposedly have a gathering limit of 50 people).

The benches sat as normal, there were maybe 30 people watching, so over 50 in the ground, which was open.
Game was OK, U15s, 1-7, a couple of good advantages, no new laws to invoke though

So, given that we have kinda voluntary guidelines here, or at least it seems there's no effort to enforce, I feel pretty weird about it TBH.

Most of us are used to lack of handshakes at the end, so indeed, business as usual!

 

[Peter Grove]

It clearly can't be right that we have had 20,000+ deaths in care homes and other countries have had none??

It isn't. Belgium, Italy and Spain have all had large numbers of deaths in care homes. In Spain, soldiers drafted in to disinfect a number of residential homes found elderly people abandoned and dead in their beds. In Sweden, which has the fifth largest number of deaths per capita in the world so far (right behind the UK, Belgium, Spain and Italy) almost 50% of the deaths have been in care homes. In Belgium, it's over 50%.

Horrific CoVid-19 death toll in care homes

 

[Sheffields Finest]

It isn't. Belgium, Italy and Spain have all had large numbers of deaths in care homes. In Spain, soldiers drafted in to disinfect a number of residential homes found elderly people abandoned and dead in their beds. In Sweden, which has the fifth largest number of deaths per capita in the world so far (right behind the UK, Belgium, Spain and Italy) almost 50% of the deaths have been in care homes. In Belgium, it's over 50%.

Horrific CoVid-19 death toll in care homes

Thanks @Peter Grove but that backs up my post too, all countries are doing it differently, some haven’t added the care home stats at all so to say we are the worst is just guesswork. It’s not great anywhere but counting everything as CV or not counting anything can’t ever be compared Equally at the moment.

 

[GraemeS]

Thanks @Peter Grove but that backs up my post too, all countries are doing it differently, some haven’t added the care home stats at all so to say we are the worst is just guesswork. It’s not great anywhere but counting everything as CV or not counting anything can’t ever be compared Equally at the moment.

But that's why I popped up and started talking about excess deaths - that's a number that doesn't care about where or why people died, or if you've got testing capacity in place, it just tells you what effect the virus has had. And as you can see here https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0 , regardless of how you try to twist the data, there's no way you can argue that we haven't done incredibly poorly.

 

[santa sangria]

Football people remember, refereeing specifically