Handball wasn't given because it hit his arm by his side in a totally natural position.
The shirt pulling wasn't given because it comes absolutely nowhere near the clear an obvious error criteria that Howard Webb wants.
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- Thread starter santa sangria
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The shirt pulling wasn't given because it comes absolutely nowhere near the clear an obvious error criteria that Howard Webb wants.
Therealcjhill
Well-Known Member
Arteta is a strange fella. Very calm in interviews. But then for the smallest of reasons losses his 
. At one point he’s chatting to 4th official, walks away smiling and calm and then decides to go back and start screaming at him. It was obviously not a penalty and he should know that. But not sure officials do themselves any favours by allowing them to scream and shout. Why didn’t 4th just say, Mikel it’s clearly not a handball as his arm was down by his side, blasted from close range and so you know it wasn’t, so walk away and stop the antics, you look silly.
. At one point he’s chatting to 4th official, walks away smiling and calm and then decides to go back and start screaming at him. It was obviously not a penalty and he should know that. But not sure officials do themselves any favours by allowing them to scream and shout. Why didn’t 4th just say, Mikel it’s clearly not a handball as his arm was down by his side, blasted from close range and so you know it wasn’t, so walk away and stop the antics, you look silly.Pmalinski83
Member
Fair play with the handball. As for the shirt pulling - I thought the "clear and obvious" is a guideline for VAR for reviewing the decision. I didn't criticise that. I criticised the referee on the pitch for not spotting it and not giving a penalty for shirt pulling in the penalty box.
That shirt pull is a clear and obvious error though and should of been a pen especially as Madley already booked 2 players for shirt pulls and awarded a free kick and this is what annoys fans, why are they penalised but yet in the box, its not deemed to be a clear and obvious error.
I agree the handball was probably not a pen but if Madley gives the pen I doubt VAR would of overruled it.
You should know that as a referee it is impossible to see everything that happens at a set piece. Even had he seen it I'm still not 100% sure it would be expected to be given with the current guidelines.
hoofhearted
New Member
Never handball in last minute for me!
Not in Webb terms it isn't. He only wants VAR for things like Henry's handball in the playoff against Ireland, he will absolutely back VAR for not getting involved here.
Pmalinski83
Member
Yes, it's shirt pulling so it's a penalty. This is just following the LOTG. I don't know why you're twisting my words yet again. I didn't say I expect the referee to see everything that happens on the pitch. But I think expecting the referee to see a potentially game changing foul in the penalty box is not too much to ask?
So you have never missed shirt pulling at a penalty? I will openly admit I have, including in games that were filmed and I was sent the evidence to prove I had missed it. It is impossible to see everything that goes on at a set piece, the human vision just doesn't give that ability.
Pmalinski83
Member
Again, I struggle to see your point. First, you twisted my words twice. Now, you seem to agree with me that shirt pulling in the penalty area is a penalty but you're making a big thing out of the fact that the referee "missed it", as if it was a mitigation. Yes, he missed a foul in a penalty area, and therefore I called it poor officiating as it had an impact on the result of the game.
Besides, the shirt pulling is happening right in front of goal at a corner kick so I think there is close to zero excuse for the referee to miss it. I think this was poor officiating.
Besides, the shirt pulling is happening right in front of goal at a corner kick so I think there is close to zero excuse for the referee to miss it. I think this was poor officiating.
Then people will moan the bar is too high again, in the laws of the game that should be a pen and so it should of been reviewed.
If Madley seen it in real time and thought the pull was not sufficient enough to go over then for me that is irrelevant, it clearly impeded the attacker, as Neville says the shirt was pulled that much the sponsor logo was over the player shoulder!
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Or Madley decided it wasn’t SPA, so he wasn’t going to caution, and blowing the whistle would do nothing for the keeper, but would slow him down and force him to kick the ball from the ground.
RefIADad
RefChat Addict
I said the same thing about Lopetegui Saturday in the Wolves-Man United game. Lopetegui looked completely unhinged on nearly every call going against Wolves, yet no one dealt with it. Same thing today with Arteta.
Please, Howard Webb, back your referees to deal with dissent. If the Premier League owners balk at it, just ask the owners if they enjoy watching their coaches behave like children every weekend.
Please, Howard Webb, back your referees to deal with dissent. If the Premier League owners balk at it, just ask the owners if they enjoy watching their coaches behave like children every weekend.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
If a coach delays the opposition restart it’s a red card.
That’s what the book says, no?
Yes. Although minor correction
Missing something isn’t poor refereeing. You should know as a referee how much goes on in the box at set pieces and it’s impossible to watch around 18 players running around the penalty area at the same time.
Saying it had an impact on the result of the game sounds like a comment from a fan, not a referee. There’s no way to even say he would have scored the penalty had it been given so no, his decision didn’t affect that result at all.
I've no idea I'm just a fan, not a ref but if that's what the LOTG says then it shows again PL refs are not strong enough to sanction that sort of behaviour. In fairness I suspect it comes from higher up but showing a yellow or a red on that situation does not affect the game but could show your strong enough for match control.
I saw Shearer criticising Madley for all the yellow cards but I would say the vast majority of them were right, maybe Joelinton one on replays looks a tad harsh but in real time you can understand why he showed a yellow for I assume SPA. At the end of the day if players start making life tough tor the ref and he has to show bookings then so be it.
With regard to the shirt pull I think it's a penalty, but I don't think it wasn't given because he missed it. I think it wasn't given because PL referees have been told not to award pens for shirt pulls in the box unless it's ridiculous. Gabriel himself pulled a shirt far more obviously in the Brighton game and benefited from this policy. Here's another example:
Newcastle have a good argument that the free kick should not have been awarded in the first place.
As a grassroots referee I don't like this policy, but as an Arsenal fan I have no complaints.
Newcastle have a good argument that the free kick should not have been awarded in the first place.
As a grassroots referee I don't like this policy, but as an Arsenal fan I have no complaints.
If we look at it technically there is no direct free kick offence listed as pull, or pulling, in the LOTG.
Pulling gets two mentions, once for SPA and once for DOGSO, both times as actions that result in a sanction that can't be downgraded for those offences.
So when we see a player 'pulling' this is actually a holding offence, and as we know from the definition of holding, a holding offence only occurs where
contact with an opponent’s body
or equipment impedes the opponent’s movement.
I think the fix for this would be to list pulling as an offence, separate to holding, as football clearly expects pulling of a players equipment to be punished, but often the way the laws are written means that although the opponent is holding (insert pulling) the players equipment there movement is not impeded and thus no offence is being committed.
Pulling gets two mentions, once for SPA and once for DOGSO, both times as actions that result in a sanction that can't be downgraded for those offences.
So when we see a player 'pulling' this is actually a holding offence, and as we know from the definition of holding, a holding offence only occurs where
contact with an opponent’s body
or equipment impedes the opponent’s movement.
I think the fix for this would be to list pulling as an offence, separate to holding, as football clearly expects pulling of a players equipment to be punished, but often the way the laws are written means that although the opponent is holding (insert pulling) the players equipment there movement is not impeded and thus no offence is being committed.
It was a big appt for Madley and he'll be better placed now for the next one. The players tried to get at him and ultimately failed. Timing of the first yellow is a bit of a lottery. An early yellow with no subsequent cards during the rest of the half is much the same as an early yellow that's followed by loads more, except Ref gets lauded or lambasted depending on the outcome. Madley was overly fussy, penalised too much trivial contact, had a slightly low bar for sanctions, but ultimately came out of the game with a lot of credit. I'd trust him with another high profile game on the back of that
WRT VAR, everyone moaning about bar too low or too high. Ultimately this is a problem with VAR that can't realistically be fixed
Personally, I'd much much prefer a high bar and hopefully once everyone gets used to that approach, VAR will be miles better than it has been because the onus will be back on the Ref to do his job more effectively and forensics can be left to offside only
WRT VAR, everyone moaning about bar too low or too high. Ultimately this is a problem with VAR that can't realistically be fixed
Personally, I'd much much prefer a high bar and hopefully once everyone gets used to that approach, VAR will be miles better than it has been because the onus will be back on the Ref to do his job more effectively and forensics can be left to offside only