A&H

Arsenal vs Man Utd

Mooseybaby

Mooseybaby

Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Cracking game for the neutral!

Paul Pogba deservedly shown a straight red by Andre Marriner for following through and sticking his studs into the back of Bellerin's knee.

Looked a nasty cowardly challenge!
 
The Referee Store
Koscielny dogso?

But yes nasty challenge from pogba, unintentional it seemee correct decision on red card.
 
Good refereeing team effort right up to the two missed Ars PKs. 1st stonewall, second softer
 
I'm in 2 minds over the foul on Lakaku. (Splinters alert). Yes the foul denied him a possible opportunity for a one on one with Cech, however wasn't in control of the ball and on the diagonal. Which ever card was shown, would find it hard to disagree with. Obvious GSO? Just not sure.

Nailed on PK missed for the trip on Welbeck. AR should have had a good view.
 
I agree with @Mooseybaby, lukaku was never in full control of the ball, and was heading in the general direction of the goal. To me preventing a promising attack.
 
The lotg says

• likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball

For me there is no doubt that Lukaku, without being fouled, was going to regain posession of the ball.

Remembering as well the update "If player moves diagonally to pass the last defender/goalkeeper this can still
be a DOGSO"

I also think its to far away from goal to think about direction of play as his next touch could more than easily put him on course for the goal, if it wasnt already.

So my only doubt is the location of Bellerin. I think as he is behind the ball and therefore not in a position to prevent an ogso at the time of the offence makes me think it should have been a red card.
 
I was really disappointed with the ref in this one to be honest. He gets the Pogba red right, but I think you're really stretching for excuses to justify only a yellow for the Arsenal DOGSO, and I'm stunned that a top class ref/ÁR team could fail to give that last minute penalty - decisions don't come easier than that IMO.
 
Mixed bag for the officials today....

Pogba....disgusting challenge, even made sure he caught Bellerin with his left leg as well as the obvious right.

Lukaku.....whilst he might have regained control of the ball, by the time he did, Bellerin would have been covering....fantastically fast is Bellerin.

How they missed the penalty on Welbeck is staggering......
 
I thought the referee, who did both the same fixtures last seaon, played a full part in making the game what it is. Free flowing, open, and actually quite enjoyable.
The pen late on is a pen, whether its ref, AR, or both, someone has missed what looks like a straight forward key match incident, regardless of time left to play
Lukaku, that is in no way OBVIOUS goal scoring opporunity. He does not even have the ball under control, and, when I watch it over and over again, Lukaku actually puts himself into a position where he can only be knocked over by the defender, am also honest enough to say at first view, real time, I thought Lukaku was the one guilty of the foul
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I thought the referee, who did both the same fixtures last seaon, played a full part in making the game what it is. Free flowing, open, and actually quite enjoyable.
The pen late on is a pen, whether its ref, AR, or both, someone has missed what looks like a straight forward key match incident, regardless of time left to play
Lukaku, that is in no way OBVIOUS goal scoring opporunity. He does not even have the ball under control, and, when I watch it over and over again, Lukaku actually puts himself into a position where he can only be knocked over by the defender, am also honest enough to say at first view, real time, I thought Lukaku was the one guilty of the foul
Click to expand...
He doesnt have to be in control of the ball. The lotg says likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball. You camt honestly say Lukaku was not going to gain control of the ball. And when he does it would have been a clear opportunity to score a goal in my view.
We can all have differing opinions.. Ian Wright and Alan Shearer couldnt agree on pogba red, but we need to be clear that just because he was not in full control does not mean it is not dogso as if he istn fouled he is the only player gaining control of the ball there with, at that point, a clear path ahead towards the goal.
 
And nobody can say he can, so we live by the, in the opinion of the referee, senario.
The likeyhood, is a variable aspect. Not science. So, its impossible to have a definitive answer on incidents like this.
I would ask how you can deny an obvious goal scoring opportunity, to someone who might, or might not, actually have the ball in the first place
 
Ignoring the motd graphic of bellerin "covering" from 10 yards away from the incident I think this clearly shows that without being fouled Lukaku was in on goal. Control or not he is in on goal woth a clear chance to score a goal.

You're right about the variables but there are some clues we can use such as proximity of player to the ball (2yds?) If the ball was say maybe 10 yards away and it was a foot race to it then yes I can see an argument for not in control but within seconds heis getting that ball under control with a free run in. There is no1 that cam beat him to it. Keeper has no chance. Bellerins chances are slim at best He is quick but so is Lukaku.



Screenshot_20171203-082956.png
 
For me, and for the referee team on the day, its no clear and obvious. Is it a chance? Yes. Clear obvious? Not for me.
I still say to have a clear obvious opportunity to score, there is a requirement to have the actual ball, or at least more of it, than Lakaku has here.
Otherwise, we open a whole new can of worms and say, Young was tripped at the halfway line here, he does not have the ball either, but you know what, he might have had. Too grey for me, and for DOGSO it needs to be more definitive.

Disclaimer, my analogy is purely hypothetical but extreme to demonstrate the dangers of dismissal on basis a player has a chance of being in control of the ball.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
For me, and for the referee team on the day, its no clear and obvious. Is it a chance? Yes. Clear obvious? Not for me.
I still say to have a clear obvious opportunity to score, there is a requirement to have the actual ball, or at least more of it, than Lakaku has here.
Otherwise, we open a whole new can of worms and say, Young was tripped at the halfway line here, he does not have the ball either, but you know what, he might have had. Too grey for me, and for DOGSO it needs to be more definitive.

Disclaimer, my analogy is purely hypothetical but extreme to demonstrate the dangers of dismissal on basis a player has a chance of being in control of the ball.
Click to expand...
Your analagy is extreme... extremely bizarre, without any context. And i fail to see what it has to do with yesterdays foul tackle.

Anyway, I am not saying this was an easy one for the officials I just disagree with the outcome... as for speaking on behalf of Mr Marriner we will not know for sure if he has looked back and thought he might have acted differently but yes in his opinion at the time he must of had a logical thought process as to how he arrived at a yellow card.

Lotg says

The following must be considered:
• distance between the offence and the goal - 45-50 yards maybe but with completely open run ahead.
• general direction of the play - towards goal for me
• likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball - for me I am sure he is gaining control of the ball based on above graphic. Its a judgement call and each to own but if a premier league striker is not expected to gain control of the ball from that position he might as well give up.
• location and number of defenders - only Bellerin is close and he is maybe too far away for me as well to affect the play. Its all well and good saying bellerin is quick etc. But he might be carrying an injury, suffering fatigue etc. So from that snapshot he isnt involved enough for me.

Its ticking all the boxes in the good book imo, of course.
 
Mate am going yellow, I expected Mariner to go yellow and when observing I would expect a yellow. My opinion on that incident. Yellow
If the referee am watching goes red, then I want an explination,as, to me, its not clear and obvious

No relevance to my thoughts but I read with interest You Are The Ref also go yellow. Of course they, like me, might be wrong.
 
It's missing one vital thing......'obvious'.

Lukaku might regain control of the ball.....but then again he might trip over his feet....he might miscontrol the ball....
Bellerin might get back to cover.....

Too many variables to tick the 'obvious' box.
 
If we understand the difference between 'obvious' (the word used in LOTG) and the word "certain' (the word not used) then we can discard all the unlikely variables (such as lightning striking the attacker☺)
 
obvious....ˈɒbvɪəs/
adjective
  1. Easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent.
  2. Predictable and lacking in subtlety.
I think Google is being a little bit naughty!!!
 
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