Chelsea v Brighton

[Russell Jones]

I actually think alot of fans think it should of been a red card and if Brighton was at home, I would say the likelyhood of the red card coming out increases due to the influence of the crowd.

For me it's a dangerous tackle, 2 feet off the ground, high intensity and with 2 feet off the ground how can you be in control and just the fact there was not much contact should not mean it's only a yellow.

Caveat - I've not yet seen the challenge. However, with regard to your second sentence, the key additional question is whether there was ever any real likelihood of contact from the challenge. At one extreme there's the recent Kane challenge on Robertson where there would definitely have been significant contact had Robertson not jumped out of the way (therefore Red for me). At the other extreme is where the challenge is so poorly timed that it's always going to miss both man and ball .. therefore no real danger to anyone but still needs to be managed with a yellow because of its reckless nature.

 

[Anubis]

Not seen the tackle but Chelsea goal should not be standing, at the corner, the striker slaps the defender in the side of the head, the defender tries to retaliate by grabbing the striker and the striker is too strong for him, the first foul is blatent, its a yc for reckless and a fk to Brighton,

 

[JamesL]

Not seen the tackle but Chelsea goal should not be standing, at the corner, the striker slaps the defender in the side of the head, the defender tries to retaliate by grabbing the striker and the striker is too strong for him, the first foul is blatent, its a yc for reckless and a fk to Brighton,

The contact with the hand of the Chelsea player to the Brighton players head/face happens before the ball is in play so you can't award a free kick to Brighton. The restart would have to be a corner if you wanted to hold up play and punish that.

 

[RefIADad]

If there is a two footed lunging tackle that could not be a red I guess this is it. Brighton didn't even seem that bothered by it so Dean probably did what was expected by the players.

Not saying I agree with the decision to go yellow or that I would have done the same thing in my games (this is a red for me in the games I center), but I think you have nailed the rationale here. Yes, Rudiger went two-footed, but I'm assuming that professional players won't be going nuts for a sendoff unless there's significant contact with the player. I don't think that's right, but professionals are probably considering that they are in control of their actions and if there's minimal contact, then a caution is acceptable.

I'll say it again - I don't agree with that line of reasoning, but I can at least appreciate that this may be the logic here. That type of "challenge" is a red in any match I work, but I also don't work matches anywhere close to the level of the Premier League.

 

[Anubis]

The contact with the hand of the Chelsea player to the Brighton players head/face happens before the ball is in play so you can't award a free kick to Brighton. The restart would have to be a corner if you wanted to hold up play and punish that.

i only saw the contact, briefly, for two secs so yes, if the bals not in play, this needs sorted and back to the original corner

i try watch it, plus the tackle later.

 

[RustyRef]

The contact with the hand of the Chelsea player to the Brighton players head/face happens before the ball is in play so you can't award a free kick to Brighton. The restart would have to be a corner if you wanted to hold up play and punish that.

Also that contact didn't do anything, he only went down after a secondary contact and Maupay caused that by grabbing hold of Lukaku.

The only thing wrong with that goal was having a 5'8" striker man marking the best header of the ball in football. Madness.

 

[Anubis]

Also that contact didn't do anything, he only went down after a secondary contact and Maupay caused that by grabbing hold of Lukaku.

The only thing wrong with that goal was having a 5'8" striker man marking the best header of the ball in football. Madness.

He smacked him in the face. Ball in play,not in play, I cant see how this is ok

As I stated, its not him going down in the next phase which is an issue, its this.

 

[RustyRef]

He smacked him in the face. Ball in play,not in play, I cant see how this is ok

As I stated, its not him going down in the next phase which is an issue, its this.

But he waits for the next contact, which he causes, before going down. Either it is an extremely delayed reaction, he knows he's lost Lukaku so tries to buy a foul, or more likely it is that secondary contact that takes him down.. Either way, I don't think VAR can get involved as the ball was out of play at the time so cannot be a foul, that means it is out of their remit.

 

[JamesL]

He smacked him in the face. Ball in play,not in play, I cant see how this is ok

As I stated, its not him going down in the next phase which is an issue, its this.

I'm not saying you can't deal with this... But the referee has to do it and in any event it can only result in a corner to Chelsea as the ball was not in play at the time of the offence.

.

The only thing wrong with that goal was having a 5'8" striker man marking the best header of the ball in football. Madness.

For fear of stepping in to the world of fandom (and as you know we are aligned in that respect) but I am not sure that I would personally give Lukaku that particular accolade.

 

[Anubis]

But he waits for the next contact, which he causes, before going down. Either it is an extremely delayed reaction, he knows he's lost Lukaku so tries to buy a foul, or more likely it is that secondary contact that takes him down.. Either way, I don't think VAR can get involved as the ball was out of play at the time so cannot be a foul, that means it is out of their remit.

Opens up a can of worms that, potentially, you could bowl someone over before the kick. ( not a violent conduct punch), then score from the header, on the basis the ref missed it, and as ball was not in play and it was not a red card, VAR dont step in either.

Having watched it again, no, cant expect anything, none of which changes that first phase of the incident, was absolutely illegal.

had the defender gone down, instead of playing on, things might have been different, I go as far as to say some players would have rolled around claiming they had been struck.

absolutelt not doubting part two of the incident is him grabbing the striker, then part three is the striker shrugging him off. its part one that is a arm into the face, well above any expected jostling pre setpiece

 

[Anubis]

I'm not saying you can't deal with this... But the referee has to do it and in any event it can only result in a corner to Chelsea as the ball was not in play at the time of the offence.

For fear of stepping in to the world of fandom (and as you know we are aligned in that respect) but I am not sure that I would personally give Lukaku that particular accolade.

In a perfect world, imo, yes, the corner is prevented and the flaying arm is dealt with,
It has not been, and the arm swinger has scored.

which just gets written off as, tough.

 

[JamesL]

In a perfect world, imo, yes, the corner is prevented and the flaying arm is dealt with,
It has not been, and the arm swinger has scored.

which just gets written off as, tough.

I get it but you still can't give a free kick to Brighton.
I think a VAR intervention here is messy. It's not a red. It's not really a missed serious incident (by its probable meaning). It's not a PK.
You could stretch to checking goal and phase of play, but you can't penalise it properly so the messy bit is disallowing the goal and going back, cautioning and restarting with a corner.
I just can't see "football" understanding or accepting it. We have to hope the ref sees it. It's too much re refereeing any other way really.

 

[Anubis]

I get it but you still can't give a free kick to Brighton.
I think a VAR intervention here is messy. It's not a red. It's not really a missed serious incident (by its probable meaning). It's not a PK.
You could stretch to checking goal and phase of play, but you can't penalise it properly so the messy bit is disallowing the goal and going back, cautioning and restarting with a corner.
I just can't see "football" understanding or accepting it. We have to hope the ref sees it. It's too much re refereeing any other way really.

crossed wires, I stated after your first reply to this that i was unaware ball was not in play and thus accepting there can be no fk,

I cant recall any other similar incident and totally agree its awkward. Ultimately we just award the goal and say, tough, the ref missed it.

which takes us full circle on the var wheel.

Anyway, the incident aroused my interest, and I dont think Brighton will be too happy when they review it,

 

[socal lurker]

I get it but you still can't give a free kick to Brighton.
I think a VAR intervention here is messy. It's not a red. It's not really a missed serious incident (by its probable meaning). It's not a PK.
You could stretch to checking goal and phase of play, but you can't penalise it properly so the messy bit is disallowing the goal and going back, cautioning and restarting with a corner.
I just can't see "football" understanding or accepting it. We have to hope the ref sees it. It's too much re refereeing any other way really.

Since a restart took place, you can’t go back under the LOTG (with that caveat for VC). Something that happens before a restart can’t be part of attacking phase.

 

[Peter Grove]

All this sorta nonsense should be in the book then. No point arbitrarily telling some Refs this and not others. I haven't seen the tackle, but these secret interpretations (even if this one is historic) do my nut in

I don't think this was ever in any officially-published guidance (certainly not from the IFAB) - happy to be proved wrong, of course. As I recall it was more of a summing up (by a senior ex-referee/pundit?) of what he believed to be the interpretation used at higher levels of the game, especially within the PGMOL.

 

[Yampy]

The only thing wrong with that goal was having a 5'8" striker man marking the best header of the ball in football. Madness.

Brighton deployed zonal coverage on the edge of the goal area with their bigger men. Maupay’s job isn’t to mark Lukaku but to disrupt and “block” his clear passage to the ball. He failed and the zonal coverage failed.

Infringements at corner kicks are common place but watching 16 or so players is nigh on impossible and something will slip through. Trying to be proactive before the kick can work but you can generally only focus on a small group (front post/far post). Preparation and a sixth sense will tell you where the drop zone is likely to be so, go there.

It might seem a bit daft but (quietly) ask the big centre half as he jogs up for the corner “Where’s this going, player?”. You’ll be surprised how accurate his answer will be.

 

[Anubis]

Brighton deployed zonal coverage on the edge of the goal area with their bigger men. Maupay’s job isn’t to mark Lukaku but to disrupt and “block” his clear passage to the ball. He failed and the zonal coverage failed.

Infringements at corner kicks are common place but watching 16 or so players is nigh on impossible and something will slip through. Trying to be proactive before the kick can work but you can generally only focus on a small group (front post/far post). Preparation and a sixth sense will tell you where the drop zone is likely to be so, go there.

It might seem a bit daft but (quietly) ask the big centre half as he jogs up for the corner “Where’s this going, player?”. You’ll be surprised how accurate his answer will be.

Being smacked square on the coupon limits anyones chances of doing too much

You actually hit nail on head though, cant see everything, so, law of averages, probability, focus on, as correctly stated elsewhere, to where and to whom is this ball aimed, or, going to be aimed.
Had this referee done this, he ( hopefully), prevents the corner, yellow cards the attacker, and we go from there.
He does not, and instead a guy who smashed the defender in the face scores that teams only goal.
All and sundry unprepared and without it being our highly paid employment know who the target of the corner will be. Staggering a hugely experienced ( and generally strong willed), referee, did not.

 

[Yampy]

He does not, and instead a guy who smashed the defender in the face scores that teams only goal.

Who says he wouldn’t have scored from the subsequent corner anyway?

 

[santa sangria]

I thought this match was another damning indictment of the VAR shambles. Hit someone in the head and score, fine. Out of control leg breaker, fine.

Fan comment: I do not get the praise for Rudiger at all. He loses control frequently, gives the ball away a lot with aimless hoofs, and is readily nutmegged in his own box. The idea that he is in the best 10 players in the world, the best defender in the league etc. is laughable. He’s a stockier Djimi Traore. SEAGULLS!

 

[JamesL]

I thought this match was another damning indictment of the VAR shambles. Hit someone in the head and score, fine. Out of control leg breaker, fine.

Fan comment: I do not get the praise for Rudiger at all. He loses control frequently, gives the ball away a lot with aimless hoofs, and is readuly nutmegged in his own box. The idea that he is in the best 10 players in the world, the best defender in the league etc. is laughable. He’s a stockier Djimi Traore. SEAGULLS!

Yes but real Madrid are interested as they lost their walking red card to PSG.