A&H

Chelsea v Utd

Ouch and a second goal VAR'd off...

Interested to know, given that Giroud's foot was about 8cm offside, who wants that not given?
For me it's obviously offside, even though it's 8cm (ish) - but it would fall foul of the wang buffer - crazy!
 
The Referee Store
With the first goal for Chelsea, if such a situation occurs, are we to apply common sense and give the goal, or are we technically supposed to go back and give the penalty seeing how we're judging based on two fouls happening in sequence?

I favour the common sense route, but is that technically correct?
 
With the first goal for Chelsea, if such a situation occurs, are we to apply common sense and give the goal, or are we technically supposed to go back and give the penalty seeing how we're judging based on two fouls happening in sequence?

I favour the common sense route, but is that technically correct?
Advantage?
I think the Azpilacueta push is a direct consequence of Fred's push, therefore becomes incidental contact
 
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Chelsea are only the second team to have two goals scrubbed off in one game!! Guess the other one!!!! GRRRRRRRR ;)
 
Probable red for Maguire early on - not quite sure how he got away with it under a VAR review. First disallowed Chelsea goal seemed more of a United foul that lead to the push so on balance should have either been pen or let the goal stand.

I think that the second goal has to be disallowed as we should use the same criteria as per other Premiership games - ie zero tolerance to marginal offsides. The refs can't change their tolerances half way through a season else we'll have a riot from the fans. So Giroud is offside.
 
I didn't think Maguire was guilty of an act of brutality. The inconsistency that Son was sent packing just highlights how far VAR has taken us
I don't think Zouma's goal should've been disallowed because the domino effect wasn't Azperlawhathisface's fault
 
I watched this game live from the other side of the pond... I am a Man U fan. I would say, tough one on the dive but hats off to him on the call. On replay, Willian does fake him out and then gets over the outstretched leg (so hard to tell if there was contact BUT he then looks to make no effort to stay on his feet (left foot in particular which he looks to deliberately keep back going down. Really tough call. I could see many refs assuming contact and giving the pen but watching the replay... I think he got it. Pretty darn impressive.

Now for Maguire.... RC all day long for me. His first leg was natural. 2nd deliberate and unnatural imho. I don't care about the degree of force but deliberate studs to the groin of another player.... yeah... VC for me if I see that in my games
 
You don't have to have contact for it to be a pen.

Willian was a victim of the way he went down and not why he went down.
 
My thoughts overall are we'd be just fine without VAR. It really hasn't helped this game.
I’ve been defending it for months and was even defending it through the incredibly tight offside calls but after seeing that Maguire red not given, or the push for the Chelsea goal I am wondering what is the point in it. It’s just another way of looking at decisions but it’s not brought us any closer to actually make the correct one
 
I’ve been defending it for months and was even defending it through the incredibly tight offside calls but after seeing that Maguire red not given, or the push for the Chelsea goal I am wondering what is the point in it. It’s just another way of looking at decisions but it’s not brought us any closer to actually make the correct one

It gives us a better opportunity though. There have been plenty of high-profile matches this season where VAR has helped to give a pretty clear penalty not initially given for instance (e.g. Manchester derby, Spurs V Chelsea, Spurs V Man City).

If Maguire had been sent off last night by VAR we'd have all been saying how well the system work.s The fact Chris Kavanagh made what many people consider to be a poor decision doesn't mean that VAR as a concept is worthless, it just means that the operator made a poor judgement.
 
It gives us a better opportunity though. There have been plenty of high-profile matches this season where VAR has helped to give a pretty clear penalty not initially given for instance (e.g. Manchester derby, Spurs V Chelsea, Spurs V Man City).

If Maguire had been sent off last night by VAR we'd have all been saying how well the system work.s The fact Chris Kavanagh made what many people consider to be a poor decision doesn't mean that VAR as a concept is worthless, it just means that the operator made a poor judgement.
Correct, but if the people using it are making poor judgment calls, then wants the point in having it at all.

Without VAR a referee makes a mistake and everyone can put that down to human error, blocked view of incident etc. Annoying yes, but we all move on. Make the same mistake with VAR and it’s forever slated. You’ve nowhere to hide and no excuse, you’ve simply made the wrong decision when watching countless replays from any angle you choose.
 
Son Heung-Min got sent off by VAR for something considerably less flagrant than that a month or two ago.
 
Correct, but if the people using it are making poor judgment calls, then wants the point in having it at all.

Without VAR a referee makes a mistake and everyone can put that down to human error, blocked view of incident etc. Annoying yes, but we all move on. Make the same mistake with VAR and it’s forever slated. You’ve nowhere to hide and no excuse, you’ve simply made the wrong decision when watching countless replays from any angle you choose.

I don't disagree but you can't get rid of VAR just because some VARs can't/don't make the correct judgement. If necessary, you just need to get rid of them as VARs and use the people who do make the correct decisions a higher percentage of the time.

I don't think VAR has been anywhere near 100% accurate in terms of its interventions but I think it has helped increase the accuracy which is a start, and hopefully with more training/experience/appraisal things will improve - on some level, that might mean making changes to who operates VAR because I think it's a slightly distinct role from being an on-field referee. There's probably some overlap but there might be excellent VARs who aren't top referees and vice-cersa.
 
Son Heung-Min got sent off by VAR for something considerably less flagrant than that a month or two ago.

I think that's the big thing for me. It was such an obvious comparison that there's little credibility to VAR not intervening here.

It would be interesting to know what the PGMO/Anthony Taylor thought of that Son red card. I think most people agreed with red but perhaps they didn't which might explain the lack of intervention here?
 
Correct, but if the people using it are making poor judgment calls, then wants the point in having it at all.

Without VAR a referee makes a mistake and everyone can put that down to human error, blocked view of incident etc. Annoying yes, but we all move on. Make the same mistake with VAR and it’s forever slated. You’ve nowhere to hide and no excuse, you’ve simply made the wrong decision when watching countless replays from any angle you choose.
No. We don't all move on. That's literally why VAR exists.
 
I’ve been defending it for months and was even defending it through the incredibly tight offside calls but after seeing that Maguire red not given, or the push for the Chelsea goal I am wondering what is the point in it. It’s just another way of looking at decisions but it’s not brought us any closer to actually make the correct one

I'm with you - up until the last few words.

Problem is, as we know, most non offside, decisions are subjective - so impossible to say that a 'correct' or 'wrong' decision has been reached.

For me, for the most part, its just another decision - albeit made with the benefit of replays, but as was obvious and is now evident, it being a subjective decision, it is still going to be debated and disagreed with.
 
I'm with you - up until the last few words.

Problem is, as we know, most non offside, decisions are subjective - so impossible to say that a 'correct' or 'wrong' decision has been reached.

For me, for the most part, its just another decision - albeit made with the benefit of replays, but as was obvious and is now evident, it being a subjective decision, it is still going to be debated and disagreed with.
So far as I can see, it means players are getting away with more stuff because previously that would have been looked at (aka trial by video) after the event.
 
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