It doesn't affect promotion at all between 7 and 5. Above those levels it affects both promotion and retention, but observations carry a higher weighting.
At grass roots the league average tends to be mid to high 70s / early 80s, but obviously varies across leagues.
At grass roots the league average tends to be mid to high 70s / early 80s, but obviously varies across leagues.
As Rusty says, that shouldn't really matter for you. Promotion doesn't depend on club marks until you get to a level where they're slightly more reliable, and in terms of getting good appointments, ref secs will have your match reports with yellow/red cards to correlate to and will know if you're being marked down just because you gave cards out.
Yeah it doesn’t affect me in any material way at all, it’s just annoying when you’ve had a great game but get marked down because their players were acting up.
To be honest it can work the other way too, getting really good marks after a fairly average performance. I do think maybe managers should be made to sit through a basic LotG introduction at a grassroots level, if this doesn’t already happen, as even during the games very few have any idea what they’re talking about.
To be honest it can work the other way too, getting really good marks after a fairly average performance. I do think maybe managers should be made to sit through a basic LotG introduction at a grassroots level, if this doesn’t already happen, as even during the games very few have any idea what they’re talking about.
Yeah but when they have gone through that course they're going to use that as an excuse to continue to argue with me even though they are biased.
How do you know what your club marks are game by game?
I you can email the person in charge of it for your league, for me last week when i was called by league secetary I just asked him then. But it depends
I write software which allocates referees to matches in a league, either completely automated or semi-automated, and then uploads the referee assignments to fulltime.
One of the most requested features from league and county referee secs is to be able to order referees by their average club mark rather than their level. So although they are meaningless in terms of your referee progression they can have an influence on which games you get within a league.
Yes, just because I didn't care what I got doesn't mean I didn't care about the games I refereed.
I referee' games to the best of my ability and the club marks, hopefully (obviously), looked after themselves.
Whether I know what the mark is or not does not really influence anything at all.
The problem I face though is even though I referee to the best of my ability and it was a good match till I sent off one of their players for a homophobic slur, then next thing your know I go from 75-82 marks to like 60. So I kinda feel like its not the best systemYes, just because I didn't care what I got doesn't mean I didn't care about the games I refereed.
I referee' games to the best of my ability and the club marks, hopefully (obviously), looked after themselves.
Whether I know what the mark is or not does not really influence anything at all.
It's absolutely not the best system. It's an awful system. But for a lot of referee secretaries it's the only information they have, other than the referee's level.
You're not being judged on individual marks, incidentally. I got a 35 in one match last season (sent the captain off) but averaged 84.
Propose a viable alternative then. There are nowhere near enough observers as it is to be able to see all promotion candidates, to extend to non-promotion candidates is a non-starter.
As a RefsSec club marks are invaluable as you have no other information on your referees, and you need to know who to appoint to cup finals, big games, etc. But you don't look at individual marks, rather at the average over the season, or even multiple seasons. In my experience the best referees appear at the top of the list, the poor referees are towards the bottom. If someone is getting marked 61 or less every single game there is very obviously a problem, likewise if someone averages 90 but then is given 20 by a losing team you can take that mark with a pinch of salt.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Club marks are invaluable but a terrible metric to base advancement on.
Send off a captain for VC…
Send off a captain for VC…
They aren't used in England at grass roots for promotion any more.
Do you think they'll stopped being used at L4 and above any time soon?
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
As RustyRef has said, we don't have enough observers able to cover Level 4 referees, and that's just for promotion candidates.
Observer marks are weighted, but currently club marks still count to some degree.
Look, it is 100% fact that after my first game as a Level 4, absurdly I was top on observer marks and rock bottom on club marks
But that's just an extreme tail to tell the Grandkids
The next game, my observer and club marks tallied up
Point being, despite my insane one game contradiction, I do believe in the value of club marks, although their value is less than the independent educated assessments we get from observers
I think County Refs are well entitled to ask for a summary of club marks at the end of the season, but it's a mistake to focus on them too much because doing so will paradoxically lead to poor refereeing. Definitely, we mustn't pay much attention to club marks on a game by game basis. The roller-coaster is just not worth the emotional investment
But that's just an extreme tail to tell the Grandkids
The next game, my observer and club marks tallied up
Point being, despite my insane one game contradiction, I do believe in the value of club marks, although their value is less than the independent educated assessments we get from observers
I think County Refs are well entitled to ask for a summary of club marks at the end of the season, but it's a mistake to focus on them too much because doing so will paradoxically lead to poor refereeing. Definitely, we mustn't pay much attention to club marks on a game by game basis. The roller-coaster is just not worth the emotional investment
When I asked my secretary for my league about it since he was also incidentally my observer for one of my games it was like Kref you're doing well, but you're going to get games where you have high and low, but don't worry about that and just do your best.