one
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This was discussed. They check. VAR protocol says only review (next phase after check) if an encroaching player has any impact on the outcome.
Colombia - Japan
- Thread starter alexgr
- Start date
Hi SF
We can say though that it is a huge improvement from what it was with in the past players almost level with the kicker. I would say trifling by Blue with a goal scored directly. Two maybe 3 Blues are at worst a step over the line. Very few, if any, referees including VAR are going to go with a retake in such situations IMHO as in real time speed it will look "okay"
D
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Coudnt disagree with you more, I’ve been studying referee trends for around 10yrs & very rarely watch a rugby or football match for the game itself it’s purely for the discipline and referee that I’m watching it.
The game in question Japan v Colombia the equalising free kick was a prime example of a referee giving a decision based on the Red card earlier in the game, he awarded a free kick to Colombia when the foul was actually on Japan.
I’ve seen hundreds of games where a ref will ref a certain way the min he sends someone off any little slight indiscretion from the opposition and they’re in the book.
It’s text book withoutout fail, a top ref accross Europe sends someone off, there after any slight 50/50 goes to the 10 men or any soft challenge that would usually go unpunished lands the 11 men with a caution.
I see it time & time again also in Rugby, I’m yet to send someone off so can’t say from a personal point of view but certainly from studying referees for a decade or so it’s as regular as clockwork that a referee favours the 10 men & is happy to caution the eleven men for challenges that before the red would have gone unpunished.
Next time you see a red on the box keep an eye on it & see what you think.
No.
This was NOT a prime example of that.
This was a prime example of the referee being in not-quite-the-correct position to see what actually happened.
From the ref's POV, the Japanese player appears to go through the Colombian player's back.
From a POV 3-4m to either side, the Colombian player clearly turns his back to the Japanese player and creates contact.
Do not ascribe to confirmational bias what can easily be ascribed to a poor viewing angle.
D
Deleted member 3014
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Refs Consciously or subconsciously favour the ten men FACT!
I’ve watched it with my own eyes for years.
As for the Falcao free kick the ref didn’t give it a second thought straight away goes with the 10 men.
It’s nailed on everytime a ref gives a red or even in some cases a dubious yellow that seconds later a lesser offence bang out comes the card for the opposition, it’s a mental thing it’s like a switch goes off in there head & they think right I’ve got to look fair now on the 10 men & be seen to discipline both sides.
Shouting "FACT!" does not make it a fact. Come on, you're better than that.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Cool. And I've watched the game for years and I certainly haven't seen any of that.
Assessed for a number of years as well. Never seen it.
So perhaps the bias actually lies within yourself - perhaps you came up with this idea a long time ago and you'vesubconsciously applied confirmation bias to assert your view. Seems more likely than every referee for some reason favouring a team because they had to make a decision.
Your comments about 'they think they have to look fair after sending a player off'....you couldn't be further from the mark. The only ref who would think like that is one way out of their depth or one having a severely off day.
What you stated isn't a FACT. It's an OPINION. And one that nobody else holds. So perhaps you should reconsider how you're looking at incidents.
D
Deleted member 3014
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The best referees are the ones that can *forget* about a decision made earlier in the game. Memory though does not allow us to be perfect referees. One expects though that having got to the top of the pile that it was NOT done by balancing decision in favour of one team. However it is not always the case that referees favour the 10 with many times the opposite happening of a referee having his fill of a team, walks one and gives the team little if anything afterwards.
I think the Falcao call could have gone either way and if a goal did not result there would have been little said about it. I could not see no call being made which was probably the correct decision as both fouled IMO. Falcao before that had got involved in a few skirmishes and he had got a few knocks which were ignored.
If we look at the England game it would have been easy for the referee to give a pen to even up the soft Walker one yet that did not happen.
So human nature is obviously a factor yet not to the extent that it compromises decisions which ultimately will work against the referee in reviews and assessment
I think the Falcao call could have gone either way and if a goal did not result there would have been little said about it. I could not see no call being made which was probably the correct decision as both fouled IMO. Falcao before that had got involved in a few skirmishes and he had got a few knocks which were ignored.
If we look at the England game it would have been easy for the referee to give a pen to even up the soft Walker one yet that did not happen.
So human nature is obviously a factor yet not to the extent that it compromises decisions which ultimately will work against the referee in reviews and assessment
You are thinking like a player again rather than a referee. And you sound like a pundit which is even worse …
I never made it beyond L3, but I refereed some big games and made some massive decisions and equally made some massive clangers. Many of these made the local press, one of them made the national press. I am 100% confident that at no point have I ever based my decisions on what happened previously in the game, certainly not major decisions anyway.
Looking back, in one particular season I reduced three teams to nine men, so rather than (consciously or subconsciously) favour the team that was down to ten men, I did the opposite and reduced them to nine men.
The reason teams, even the best, often struggle against ten men is that their opponents retreat into their shells and put all ten men behind the ball and it then becomes more difficult that it was against eleven. Not that dissimilar to Spain and their many world class players tonight struggling to break down Iran who quite literally parked the bus in the first half.
D
Deleted member 3014
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I don’t mean every last decision goes with the 10 men but it’s amazing how a ref changes his stance on yellow cards after he’s sent someone off, he seems to automatically turn into a caution machine to look fair.
I’ve been studying referees and there discipline trends for 10yrs plus I watch & gamble on 5-20 games per week, It’s not a flippant comment I’ve witneessd it for years.
I’m not saying every single last ref & every single game with 10 men but I see it more often than not.
Refreshing to hear your past games & others on here that woudnt be swayed in there application after reducing a team to ten men, but honestly I find myself sitting up & thinking wow when a ref is not influenced by giving a red.
A recent rugby league game the ref sin binned 3 players from the same side & I was gobsmacked how he maintained his neutral approach, it’s that rare that it actually stands out when I do see it.
I’ve been studying referees and there discipline trends for 10yrs plus I watch & gamble on 5-20 games per week, It’s not a flippant comment I’ve witneessd it for years.
I’m not saying every single last ref & every single game with 10 men but I see it more often than not.
Refreshing to hear your past games & others on here that woudnt be swayed in there application after reducing a team to ten men, but honestly I find myself sitting up & thinking wow when a ref is not influenced by giving a red.
A recent rugby league game the ref sin binned 3 players from the same side & I was gobsmacked how he maintained his neutral approach, it’s that rare that it actually stands out when I do see it.
As a senior referee you have to learn to totally forget about previous decisions you have made. Once you start to think about decisions you have previously made it will start to unravel pretty quickly. Before I developed a strategy to look forward rather than backwards I had some horrendous games - one bad mistake led to another, which led to another, which led to another, and so on.
D
Deleted member 3014
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Which I must say Rusty is one of my biggest issues, it’s caused me aggro in many games.
To try and break it down & give you examples..
I could give a decision & automatically realise or decide that it was wrong, I can’t just let it go it’ll play on my mind for a short while & I won’t be thinking straight I’ll be self conscious about it & then won’t be confident in my next decision.
A moan or dissent from a player, I’ll respond & the game will continue yet all that’s on my mind now is the verbal disagreement, the player & game has moved on yet I’m replaying the incident in my head & once again not concentrating fully.
Basically dwelling on anything in game is my weak point, I find it very difficult to move on rapidly without it playing on my mind.
I’ve got better and obviously time & experince will help, I mean my first 5 games I was having full blown arguments with players, now 25-30 games further on I’m learning & im beginning to find a balance onfield.
As you know I’m not the most cool calm & collected characters I’m a bit of hot head which doesn’t bode well for a ref but it is what it is, I’ve got the refereeing bug & have turned down two clubs already as a player I’ve made the decision that the boots are well & truly hung up.
Confidence is a big factor if I’m in the groove then I enjoy it & nothing phases me on the pitch but if I don’t start well it’ll take me a long time to get going.
But wiping the mind clean after every big moment in the game is something I need to work on, if u have any tips id be interested to hear it.
one
RefChat Addict
And that's not just in the game of football. Its a FACT of life
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Many on here hold themselves to high standards (me included, I try) but I am with MiB on this one.
It's been a fact of football fandom for me over 35 years as a watcher, that, every now and again, in games with 10 men in the top flight on the the telly, there are a few soft decisions e.g. no second red for the 10, a soft red for the 11, a few soft DFKs for the 10... of course, there could be an element of confirmation bias going on...
I think this is entirely human. And it can also be observed with higher criteria for 2nd yellow, higher criteria for dogso where the team is losing heavily... can I pick out specific examples..? No, not without random searching
These are things I am very conscious of when I have the whistle. I think it is so important to take every incident as it comes.
It's been a fact of football fandom for me over 35 years as a watcher, that, every now and again, in games with 10 men in the top flight on the the telly, there are a few soft decisions e.g. no second red for the 10, a soft red for the 11, a few soft DFKs for the 10... of course, there could be an element of confirmation bias going on...
I think this is entirely human. And it can also be observed with higher criteria for 2nd yellow, higher criteria for dogso where the team is losing heavily... can I pick out specific examples..? No, not without random searching
These are things I am very conscious of when I have the whistle. I think it is so important to take every incident as it comes.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
We have all been there. Esp with kids. Team already getting pumped and you put them down to ten (or they got no subs and someone gets injured etc), its 7-0 with ten mins to go and either, the winning team have a "maybe" pk appeal, which we dont give, or the battered side have a " you know what, i could give that" pk appeal....
Maybe it’s becase 10 men tend to try harder to compensate and in doing that they get involved in more stuff that could lead to a decision to be made for them. I don’t follow the ‘he’s evened it up’ argument at all!
D
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More feel obliged than even it up.
Peter Grove
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Possibly, however there a vast difference between "every now and again .... There are a few soft decisions" and saying (as MiB did) that referees in general, routinely and "automatically" abandon their integrity and simply become an extra player for the team whose player they've sent off.
I see he's now modified his stance and is admitting that it doesn't always happen but only after repeating the same slur at least four or five times in previous posts.