A&H

Corner or Pen?

The Referee Store
Penalty and red for me. It's all about what the other leg is doing - it's perfectly possible for this to have been just as effective with a slide and lower force, but instead he chooses to go off the ground and the whole of his other leg and body weight is impacting high up the opponent.
 
A few years ago, no problem, attacker stumbles a little, gived the defender the chance to put in a reducer. Play on.

But now, if you see that, it’s quite an easy red to decide on - but OMG that is such a tough sell on the field.
 
Speed and force of the challenge ball winning is not a consideration.
20 years ago play on corner. Now though the expectation of this challenge is red amongst referees at least.
As Santa says though, hard sell out there on FOP
 
Like other have said I'd prob be (wrongly) giving a corner if I'm reffing.
Having seen the vid it's 100% a red card and a real leg breaker of a challenge. Much more force than was required.

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It is red, but nigh on impossible to explain that to anyone on the pitch. For that reason I'm not convinced it would be always be given as a red in the pro game.
 
Not watched the vid and of course the still does not tell the full story
looks red but the referee is not going to see it, a neutral Ar might but even then, if the ref is in quick with corner, the tackle might go unpunished

from that still no blame on referee
 
RustyRef said:
It is red, but nigh on impossible to explain that to anyone on the pitch. For that reason I'm not convinced it would be always be given as a red in the pro game.
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My spiel has never changed.
To player, 'you're only interested in the ball, I'm only interested in excessive force (or opponent safety)'. That's it. There is nothing else to say
In the OP, the defender is arguably more interested in 'doing' the opponent than he is in the ball. I really hope I'd recognize this 'signature'

I have a strong association between the term 'SFP' and the word 'signature'. When I've dismissed for SFP, my mind has been made up in an instant
SFP is probably the most important offence we need to identify, because it's more likely to cause serious injury to the opponent. However, both SFP and VC have equal potential to cause mass misconduct
 
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GraemeS said:
Penalty and red for me. It's all about what the other leg is doing - it's perfectly possible for this to have been just as effective with a slide and lower force, but instead he chooses to go off the ground and the whole of his other leg and body weight is impacting high up the opponent.
Click to expand...

Immediate thought on first watch was red card for EF, first comment confirmed I'm probably correct...
 
RustyRef said:
It is red, but nigh on impossible to explain that to anyone on the pitch. For that reason I'm not convinced it would be always be given as a red in the pro game.
Click to expand...

Honestly I think it's an easier sell in a pro game than at grassroots. A pro knows not to challenge like that in a VAR world.
 
cwyeary said:
Honestly I think it's an easier sell in a pro game than at grassroots. A pro knows not to challenge like that in a VAR world.
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But we have seen challenges in the pro game where a defender has gone to block the ball and totally taken out the attacker and nothing was given. I can't think of specific examples with defenders, but Pickford on van Dijk is certainly an example, and that's even after a VAR review. There seems to be an acceptance that if a defender is diving in to stop a goal it is more acceptable than if they are diving in outside of the area.

Although of course the defender here didn't need to make the challenge as there was no real threat to his goal.
 
RustyRef said:
It is red, but nigh on impossible to explain that to anyone on the pitch. For that reason I'm not convinced it would be always be given as a red in the pro game.
Click to expand...
I agree, a very hard sell. Could we possibly use the ‘what’s expected’ method here? Do any of the 22 players + coaches think that’s a foul? If you give a pen and a red there you’re going to make yourself a world of trouble, especially at grass roots.

If nobody out there is expecting it I’d be tempted to give the corner and have a very loud word with the defender and say ‘you’re lucky you’ve timed that so well, that would have been an easy red had you not. Calm it down a please.’

Will make the other players think twice about making another tackle like that?
 
RustyRef said:
But we have seen challenges in the pro game where a defender has gone to block the ball and totally taken out the attacker and nothing was given. I can't think of specific examples with defenders, but Pickford on van Dijk is certainly an example, and that's even after a VAR review. There seems to be an acceptance that if a defender is diving in to stop a goal it is more acceptable than if they are diving in outside of the area.

Although of course the defender here didn't need to make the challenge as there was no real threat to his goal.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Pickford vs Van Dijk is one of the few examples I can think of where the PL/PGMOL have effectively admitted the VAR made a mistake. There was a tight offside call in that incident - the VAR fixated on trying to get that call right, eventually concluded there was an offside so could not be a penalty, and human error meant they forgot to consider the possibility that SFP could have (and did!) occurred even if the penalty wasn't an option.

I'm still not totally sure why that didn't result in a retrospective ban for Pickford, but we're getting into the weird weeds of the FA's ban and VAR rules here, and I don't think anyone really understand all of that!
 
Big Cat said:
My spiel has never changed.
To player, 'you're only interested in the ball, I'm only interested in excessive force (or opponent safety)'. That's it. There is nothing else to say
In the OP, the defender is arguably more interested in 'doing' the opponent than he is in the ball. I really hope I'd recognize this 'signature'

I have a strong association between the term 'SFP' and the word 'signature'. When I've dismissed for SFP, my mind has been made up in an instant
SFP is probably the most important offence we need to identify, because it's more likely to cause serious injury to the opponent. However, both SFP and VC have equal potential to cause mass misconduct
Click to expand...
Dude, how come you are talking so much sense all of a sudden - have you been hacked?
 
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