Everton vs City

[GraemeS]

There's enough referees in SG1, but not enough referees that they trust

There are 22 this season, so yeeees, but given there are 30 appointments required every matchday (ref/4th/VAR for 10 games) you've still got to have at least 8 doing double-duty on a weekend. And that's before you throw in the obligation to provide some SG1 officials to lower leagues, injury, personal closed dates etc.

Go back a few seasons, take away the 4 new officials, plus the fact that I think Dean himself spent a chunk of that season out with an injury and there definitely weren't enough at the point they made this change. So maybe they now have enough to consider reversing the change we're discussing, but I'm not convinced.

 

[es1]

Agree, we need to trust the professionalism of the officials.
No way can account for every possibility, casing point, Oliver, cant do Newcastle, but, can do Sunderland. Imagine Newcastle bottom 5 end of season,i is he ruled out of Norwich, Watford or Burnley games?
Ditto at the top, its impossible to cover every situation.
Taylor simply has to be either a fan of City or United or at very least has family who will be.
I refuse to even entertain say Kavanagh messed up due to any leanings to City, its just an awful, but genuine, mistake.

I can only recall one blatent example of ' bias'. And even then, it hilariously went pear shaped

i absolutely agree. imagine (essentially) giving up your whole career for a pen which may have no bearing on the title race, it just wouldn't happen

 

[JamesL]

Agree, we need to trust the professionalism of the officials.
No way can account for every possibility, casing point, Oliver, cant do Newcastle, but, can do Sunderland. Imagine Newcastle bottom 5 end of season,i is he ruled out of Norwich, Watford or Burnley games?
Ditto at the top, its impossible to cover every situation.
Taylor simply has to be either a fan of City or United or at very least has family who will be.
I refuse to even entertain say Kavanagh messed up due to any leanings to City, its just an awful, but genuine, mistake.

I can only recall one blatent example of ' bias'. And even then, it hilariously went pear shaped

Taylor is an Altrincham fan, his hometown club.

 

[Anubis]

Taylor is an Altrincham fan, his hometown club.

Or he saying that from the moment aged 18 he realised he might climb the referee ladder and being blue or red would cause him some issues...

Not a single Utd or Liverpool fan on the list? The two biggest supported teams, maybe even globally, yet, none of the guys clearly into football aa kids have any love for them?

 

[es1]

ignoring that comment...

how does it work in scotland? same issue probably amplified...surely there's been celtic/rangers fans reffing the old firm games?

 

[Anubis]

ignoring that comment...

how does it work in scotland? same issue probably amplified...surely there's been celtic/rangers fans reffing the old firm games?

No declaration needed, demographics dictate if you have a school class of 30, 10 be Rangers, 10 Celtic, 2 Hearts, 2 Aberdeen, 2 Hibs. ( as gd as)
And with our population being across the central belt, its unrealistic to expect a kid into football, in Scotland, not to be green or blue.

as recent as last week, an ex class 1 came out in media to explain, despite being clearly a Celtic fan, if asked years ago, he was Dumbarton,

there was a spell of top refs from Aberdeen, however as time has movee on, their local leagues are not deemed as challenging as central belt, so they kinda got left behind.

its unique, if impossible, to have a top class referee based in Wick or Dumfries, simply due to demographics.

 

[bloovee]

Halsey says he's a QPR fan, and after he had to give Millwall two penalties in a game v QPR he said he never wanted to ref QPR again.

I'd experiment with foreign refs in the EPL. If your "own team" is a third division club in Catalonia, no-one here would be bothered if you were really a Barca fan. Or have the VAR office staffed by German refs in Dusseldorf.

Postscript: is there only this media fuss when it's City who get lucky? And do we know yet if Richarlison was offside?

 

[es1]

Halsey says he's a QPR fan, and after he had to give Millwall two penalties in a game v QPR he said he never wanted to ref QPR again.

I'd experiment with foreign refs in the EPL. If your "own team" is a third division club in Catalonia, no-one here would be bothered if you were really a Barca fan. Or have the VAR office staffed by German refs in Dusseldorf.

Postscript: is there only this media fuss when it's City who get lucky? And do we know yet if Richarlison was offside?

i dont think he was...but we'll never know

 

[Anubis]

Halsey says he's a QPR fan, and after he had to give Millwall two penalties in a game v QPR he said he never wanted to ref QPR again.

I'd experiment with foreign refs in the EPL. If your "own team" is a third division club in Catalonia, no-one here would be bothered if you were really a Barca fan. Or have the VAR office staffed by German refs in Dusseldorf.

Postscript: is there only this media fuss when it's City who get lucky? And do we know yet if Richarlison was offside?

Having one central var base is not the worst idea btw. Could easy have selection of retired refs from a few countries operating from one venue.

or simply the scheduled German var covering epl. epl covering German league and so on. If the var is an advisory, rather than an instruction, the varying leagues tweaks wont be too stretched

 

[James P]

Having one central var base is not the worst idea btw. Could easy have selection of retired refs from a few countries operating from one venue.

or simply the scheduled German var covering epl. epl covering German league and so on. If the var is an advisory, rather than an instruction, the varying leagues tweaks wont be too stretched

What about communication problems? Lots of Germans speak good English but when wanting VAR checks to be completed asap I'm pretty sure you want native speakers

 

[PinnerPaul]

There would be no sensible or credible position where a referee could be stood that would make that an obvious handball decision. As others have said, he would have had to be on the goal line, and the last time I checked VAR hasn't given referees x-ray vision to allow them to see through player's bodies.

And let's not forget, there were many very obvious handball offences missed before VAR was even a concept. Need I mention Thierry Henry for starters ....

Yep 'wrong' decisions before VAR, 'wrong' decisions after VAR, with cause more angst because the VAR has more time, no on field distractions and multiple angles - plus of course the delay for the paying spectator (but football long ago stopped worrying about them)

Reason? - They are (apart from offside) subjective decisions - NEVER going to be 100% unanimity on subjective decisions - its chasing the impossible dream.

 

[Anubis]

What about communication problems? Lots of Germans speak good English but when wanting VAR checks to be completed asap I'm pretty sure you want native speakers

English is UEFA choice of language.

you would only be using a few phrases anyway

interpreter if its a huge concern

we already have euro games with say, four from one country and one var from another

 

[bloovee]

Everton make formal complaint....

Have any of the pundits said, "It doesnt really matter, these things even themselves out over the course of a season"?

 

[James P]

Everton make formal complaint....

Have any of the pundits said, "It doesnt really matter, these things even themselves out over the course of a season"?

Is there any point of making a complaint, it's not gonna achieve anything

 

[Joshref]

Postscript: is there only this media fuss when it's City who get lucky? And do we know yet if Richarlison was offside?

No you tend to see far more outrage when United and Liverpool get lucky, as they’re bigger clubs.

The other part of your comment I agree with though, foreign refs in the EPL wouldn’t be a bad idea. Especially using them in terms of VAR

 

[bloovee]

"the VAR team didn't think there was conclusive evidence that the ball hit Rodri more in the red area of the arm than the green."

Well if that's the case then it's absolute nonsense. It clearly did hit more in the red area than the green.

Here's a still image of the moment of contact. That is without a doubt, more in the red than the green zone. I'd say it's about 95% in the red area which is absolutely and definitively more than what is in the green area.

View attachment 5474

I'll raise you a

 

[bloovee]

No you tend to see far more outrage when United and Liverpool get lucky, as they’re bigger clubs.

The other part of your comment I agree with though, foreign refs in the EPL wouldn’t be a bad idea. Especially using them in terms of VAR

Nice try!

 

[PinnerPaul]

Is there any point of making a complaint, it's not gonna achieve anything

Exactly, what's the difference between a 'formal complaint' and Lampard's rant after the game?

Both achieve the same thing - nothing and its a dangerous road to go down.

As I've said its part of the mistaken belief that VAR means 100% correct decisions.

Discussed previously QPR v Sunderland, QPR score a perfectly good goal that is ruled out for offside - its an objective decision this one, no complications, its an AR error clear and simple - but what to do about it - there is nothing you can do - compensation?, replayed games? - no thanks.

 

[RustyRef]

But Dean was explicitly banned from Everton and Liverpool matches for years. It was only after it became clear that he was actually definitely a Tranmere fan that he was allowed to middle those matches, and even then it was only tried out in the Derby match for a season or two before he was allowed to be involved in matches with Liverpool teams vs others.

The rules changed, where it went from postcode based to declaring who you support. That's why previously, as has been, said Halsey could referee QPR even though he supported them as he didn't live close, yet Dean couldn't officiate the Merseyside teams as he lived close even though he supports Tranmere.

I live in London and the previous rule would have banned me from all Greater London clubs, even though I have no affinity to any of them. The new approach is much better.

 

[RustyRef]

What about communication problems? Lots of Germans speak good English but when wanting VAR checks to be completed asap I'm pretty sure you want native speakers

The English language test that all FIFA officials have to pass is very advanced, there would be no communication issues.