A&H

Interesting observation

dylanbailey4444

Well-Known Member
Level 5 Referee
I had an observation report come back from Saturday and there are a few things which are interesting.

The observer said that my pre match instructions need to be clearer to my AR’s and particularly to whose responsibility it is in which half of the pitch. However, he wasn’t there when I delivered my pre match instructions and I also don’t split the pitch up by halves.

He also said my caution procedure wasn’t good enough as I didn’t take the players names. This was a step 6 game and I have the team sheets copied into my notebook, but he didn’t like the fact that I ‘did not take the names of players - relied on team sheets’.
He said in the changing rooms afterwards that he didn’t like that I was (in his opinion) flashing cards.
Him and I discussed in the dressing room post match about an e-mail which was sent out at the start of the season basically saying that the FA want to speed up the caution procedure, etc. He presumed it was just for the Premier League and the professional game but I thought it was for the entire pyramid.
(It’s worth noting that I didn’t flash any cards- I isolated them and held the card up and then ticked their name off in my notebook afterwards).

He also ticked the category for the game as ‘challenging’ when it was a rather boring game. 3 cautions and 1 penalty. I had a game last week and had 7 cautions and 1 straight red and the observer ticked the ‘normal’ category for how challenging the game was. I just find that a bit odd.

I have come out of this observation with my poorest mark yet, which is fine, but I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the above. I know it’s difficult if you weren’t there but any advice is always appreciated. I don’t want to get into the territory of appealing observations, I just wanted to seek some clarification without it looking like I’m being salty !

Thanks all.
 
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The comment:

The observer said that my pre match instructions need to be clearer to my AR’s and particularly to whose responsibility it is in which half of the pitch. However, he wasn’t there when I delivered my pre match instructions and I also don’t split the pitch up by halves.

Looks dishonest. If they weren't there where has this come from? For me this needs challenging.
 
Unless I'm much mistaken, there are only 2 criterion under which a referee can challenge an observer report:

1. The observer is incorrect in law.
2. The narrative written in the competency doesn't match the specific mark given. ie. 6.5/7/7.5
 
I had an observation report come back from Saturday and there are a few things which are interesting.

The observer said that my pre match instructions need to be clearer to my AR’s and particularly to whose responsibility it is in which half of the pitch. However, he wasn’t there when I delivered my pre match instructions and I also don’t split the pitch up by halves.

He also said my caution procedure wasn’t good enough as I didn’t take the players names. This was a step 6 game and I have the team sheets copied into my notebook, but he didn’t like the fact that I ‘did not take the names of players - relied on team sheets’.
He said in the changing rooms afterwards that he didn’t like that I was (in his opinion) flashing cards.
Him and I discussed in the dressing room post match about an e-mail which was sent out at the start of the season basically saying that the FA want to speed up the caution procedure, etc. He presumed it was just for the Premier League and the professional game but I thought it was for the entire pyramid.
(It’s worth noting that I didn’t flash any cards- I isolated them and held the card up and then ticked their name off in my notebook afterwards).

He also ticked the category for the game as ‘challenging’ when it was a rather boring game. 3 cautions and 1 penalty. I had a game last week and had 7 cautions and 1 straight red and the observer ticked the ‘normal’ category for how challenging the game was. I just find that a bit odd.

I have come out of this observation with my poorest mark yet, which is fine, but I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the above. I know it’s difficult if you weren’t there but any advice is always appreciated. I don’t want to get into the territory of appealing observations, I just wanted to seek some clarification without it looking like I’m being salty !

Thanks all.
Was this 5-4? As @Kes has said, you have limited options to challenge this. If the observer says you flashed cards, and you can't persuade him otherwise in the debrief, you flashed cards. No different to if he said you missed a penalty or a red card, that would be his opinion versus yours and his will always win out.

That said, if he has commented on your pre-match instructions when he wasn't there I would definitely be challenging that. It may be that he has observed multiple games in a short time period and mixed incidents from both up, but this is something you could clearly evidence was wrong as your assistants could presumably confirm that he wasn't there when you briefed them.

Generally speaking, to appeal an observation one or both of the below have to be true ...
  • The observer was incorrect in law. e.g you had a retake on a penalty and what he said should be the restart was actually incorrect in law. This shouldn't happen, but it certainly has.
  • The mark awarded doesn't match the written text. e.g. you've been given 6.5 or below but there is no timed evidence in that section to justify it. Or you have been given 7.0 but there is evidence based on the text that you should have been judged as above standard and therefore 7.5.
 
I wouldn't really worry about him ticking the box that it's a challenging game. That means it was tougher for you to manage (not due to your own fault) and it may (although I'm not sure) actually bump the mark up slightly.

With regards to caution procedure, if you have the team sheets marked in your book it is worth asking the player to confirm their name in the situation where you've isolating them for a caution. With that said, the guidance regarding not slowing the game down with cautions was not just for higher levels, but it's not for all cautions. Sometimes we can still slow things down when needed and sometimes, for example a caution for delaying the restart in the later stages of the game when one team are desperately trying to get on with things, a flashed card is perfect.

Also, perhaps worth contacting the observer directly and just clarifying what he means about your pre-match instructions because he didn't listen in to them.
 
I wouldn't really worry about him ticking the box that it's a challenging game. That means it was tougher for you to manage (not due to your own fault) and it may (although I'm not sure) actually bump the mark up slightly.
It doesn't. ;)
With regards to caution procedure, if you have the team sheets marked in your book it is worth asking the player to confirm their name in the situation where you've isolating them for a caution. With that said, the guidance regarding not slowing the game down with cautions was not just for higher levels, but it's not for all cautions. Sometimes we can still slow things down when needed and sometimes, for example a caution for delaying the restart in the later stages of the game when one team are desperately trying to get on with things, a flashed card is perfect.

Also, perhaps worth contacting the observer directly and just clarifying what he means about your pre-match instructions because he didn't listen in to them.
A referee contacting their observer post-match is a big no no. ;):cool:
 
It doesn't. ;)

A referee contacting their observer post-match is a big no no. ;):cool:
Most observers I've had have always told me if I have any queries regarding the report to feel free to call them...

I wouldn't advise confronting them or challenging them, but asking for clarity on something isn't an issue I'm aware of...
 
Most observers I've had have always told me if I have any queries regarding the report to feel free to call them...

I wouldn't advise confronting them or challenging them, but asking for clarity on something isn't an issue I'm aware of...
I've always been told that the referee isn't to contact me in any way shape or form. I can contact them, but not the other way around. :cool:
 
This was actually mentioned in the last regional observer meeting (which I attended online) as it happens.
I can't find it as a bullet point on any of the slides issued, but it was definitely stated that any referee who directly contacts their observer after the post match debrief shouldn't be doing so and that the observer should report any instance of it to the FA. I personally don't agree with that ethos myself but rules is rules I guess.

And sure, if I'm watching a referee 7-6-5-4 (which is all obviously County run) then I'll always include a sentence in my e mail when I send out the report to the effect of "anything you wish to discuss or clarify with me - feel free" but definitely wouldn't for a 4-3 observation.

As I understand it, the FA are busy putting together further guidance on things like this, a "terms of reference" document or something which should help tie the matter down. :)
 
I must admit it's not anything I've ever done personally, but I've also never been told it's a problem and as said above, I've been told in the past to 'feel free to'. I guess every day is a school day...
 
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It's not.

L4 and above is different. ;)
When I’ve been observed on Step 5/6 lines, every observer has once again closed their debrief saying we can text or call in the event of any issues. Says it to the Ref (L4) as well as assistants
 
When I’ve been observed on Step 5/6 lines, every observer has once again closed their debrief saying we can text or call in the event of any issues. Says it to the Ref (L4) as well as assistants
I don't doubt that for one minute but see above ... ;) :)👍
 
You’ve said for L4 and above. That means the L4s I’ve worked with should’ve been told they can’t contact the observer, surely?
Aye.
But again, like I said, I'm only regurgitating what I and others were told only a few months ago so my guess is the message hasn't gotten across properly and if what we were told at the last observer meeting is "The way ahead" then something in writing will no doubt be promulgated before next season. Don't shoot the messenger George ... ;) :D
 
I've always been told that the referee isn't to contact me in any way shape or form. I can contact them, but not the other way around. :cool:
What about a thank you?
I think this might have come about from referees confronting observers after receiving a report with a lower mark than they think they should have gotten .
 
What about a thank you?
I think this might have come about from referees confronting observers after receiving a report with a lower mark than they think they should have gotten .
I actually forgot about this. I contacted an observer to thank them for their report after an observation last April (a mark which helped me get my L3) and he said it was the first time he had received thanks all season!
 
Take it as a complement.
Seems like he didn’t have much real stuff to improve on and he doesn’t want you to get complacent. The mark is not ideal but you are obviously doing a lot really well.

Next game!
 
What about a thank you?
I think this might have come about from referees confronting observers after receiving a report with a lower mark than they think they should have gotten .

I always tell the candidates, at any level, that they can contact me if they need anything clarifying.

If there have been situations with referees confronting observers you deal with those in isolation, not put a blanket ban in place.
 
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