Is it worth?

[WhoIsThis]

Hey everyone,
I am now in a position where I could commit to doing the course. However, I am now doing a job which I don't see myself leaving for a few years which requires me to work at least half of weekend days, meaning that id miss out on typical Saturday afternoons a lot.

Is it still worth it? I know that I'm not going to have a rapid rise to the top of referring, but I'd like to have the opportunity of progression up the ranks when possible.

Is it worth it? I'm in Essex if that helps re game dates. I'm willing to do midweek evening games and linesman games too aslong as I don't need more availability than what I've said above.

Thanks!

 

[Wolf_Ref]

Hi there,

I think you could still make progression. Sunday morning games are great for developing, and many of the 'good' Saturday leagues have midweek games. Usually you signup to dates that you are free in advance, so it isn't the end of the world if you only pick a few.

I would get your course done and enjoy getting stuck into it and go for promotion after a season or two. After doing the course, the CFA (county FA) would usually give you a list of leagues. I do a range of different leagues to keep it all fresh and mix it up a bit, so there is always scope for new opportunities etc.

You can also ask about getting involved in academy games - this is something that you RDO (Referee development officer) could advise you of once you have done the course.

Absolutely do the course - it is great fun and it's really eye opening!!

TH

 

[WhoIsThis]

Hi there,

I think you could still make progression. Sunday morning games are great for developing, and many of the 'good' Saturday leagues have midweek games. Usually you signup to dates that you are free in advance, so it isn't the end of the world if you only pick a few.

I would get your course done and enjoy getting stuck into it and go for promotion after a season or two. After doing the course, the CFA (county FA) would usually give you a list of leagues. I do a range of different leagues to keep it all fresh and mix it up a bit, so there is always scope for new opportunities etc.

You can also ask about getting involved in academy games - this is something that you RDO (Referee development officer) could advise you of once you have done the course.

Absolutely do the course - it is great fun and it's really eye opening!!

TH

Thanks for the reply! I do get my days I'm meant to work for the month a day before the start of the month, so I could do that. My main thing is I don't want to do (or at least get stuck with often) "Sunday league" games which aren't part of the football pyramid if that makes sense? Of course I don't mind doing multiple different leagues if the times work, but as I said I was under the impression that teams in the pyramid pretty much all played Saturday 3pm, maybe I'm wrong though haha.

 

[Wolf_Ref]

I think that Sunday league is a lot of fun, if you find the right one. For the early refereeing levels, you can do it through local, accredited Sunday Leagues.

I do agree that Sunday league has a bad 'rep',

Positive points from me:

1. Low-stakes opportunity to learn your craft
2. Opportunities to have fun and some banter with other players
3. See the occasional brilliant pass/goal
4. Helping local, grassroutes football
5. Chance to develop your game management skills and confidence under pressure

Negatives:

1. Quality of football can be 'questionable'
2. Players can be mouthy (however, you will have tools at your disposal - and the experience will be excellent moving forward)
3. Pitches and changing rooms can be lame
4. Club linos can be very unpredictable (aka. naff)

I absolutely love my Sunday mornings. Yes, I have days where I think that I could have stayed in bed, but most of all, it is great fun, competative football. For most Saturday leagues (with neutral ARs), you are unlikely to get middles for a while, so Sunday league and lesser Saturday leagues will give you the chance to develop more.


Hope my rambling is of use.

TH

 

[WhoIsThis]

I think that Sunday league is a lot of fun, if you find the right one. For the early refereeing levels, you can do it through local, accredited Sunday Leagues.

I do agree that Sunday league has a bad 'rep',

Positive points from me:

1. Low-stakes opportunity to learn your craft
2. Opportunities to have fun and some banter with other players
3. See the occasional brilliant pass/goal
4. Helping local, grassroutes football
5. Chance to develop your game management skills and confidence under pressure

Negatives:

1. Quality of football can be 'questionable'
2. Players can be mouthy (however, you will have tools at your disposal - and the experience will be excellent moving forward)
3. Pitches and changing rooms can be lame
4. Club linos can be very unpredictable (aka. naff)

I absolutely love my Sunday mornings. Yes, I have days where I think that I could have stayed in bed, but most of all, it is great fun, competative football. For most Saturday leagues (with neutral ARs), you are unlikely to get middles for a while, so Sunday league and lesser Saturday leagues will give you the chance to develop more.


Hope my rambling is of use.

TH

It is very useful, thanks! I know that getting games with neutral ARs is hard and I don't expect to get them at the start, although I did think that there were some games in the pyramid (right at the bottom) that didn't use neutral ARs. I suppose it is possible that I could use Saturdays for the occasional middles and lines if not (if they're easy to get), decent Sunday leagues on Sundays as middles and midweek when possible too if that is enough to go for promotion when I get around to it?

Depends on how common finding midweek games is at this level I suppose which I guess I'd heavily regionally dependent

 

[Wolf_Ref]

It is very useful, thanks! I know that getting games with neutral ARs is hard and I don't expect to get them at the start, although I did think that there were some games in the pyramid (right at the bottom) that didn't use neutral ARs. I suppose it is possible that I could use Saturdays for the occasional middles and lines if not (if they're easy to get), decent Sunday leagues on Sundays as middles and midweek when possible too if that is enough to go for promotion when I get around to it?

Depends on how common finding midweek games is at this level I suppose which I guess I'd heavily regionally dependent

There will be plenty of opportunities for evening mid-week games - most likely they'll be lines for the first season or so, but I do enjoy doing a line as it's great to see other referees doing their craft, and also, seeing how they deal with things that you have struggled with in the past etc.

T

 

[WhoIsThis]

There will be plenty of opportunities for evening mid-week games - most likely they'll be lines for the first season or so, but I do enjoy doing a line as it's great to see other referees doing their craft, and also, seeing how they deal with things that you have struggled with in the past etc.

T

Sounds good. As I said my main sorry was not getting enough experience in the more respected leagues around my level on Saturdays but if you think I'd get enough to be able to get promoted a few times then I see no problem!

 

[RefJef]

I work many Saturdays and it does, now doubt, limit your options.

However, a couple of seasons ago I got promoted from 7 to 6, considered doing 6 to 5, and think I could have done it (based on both my ability & availability. The biggest limiting factor would have been the need to do 5 lines on the Tool station league - I could have done this, but it would have used up 5 of my available Saturdays. I decided not to go for 6 to 5 as I wasn’t sure how the season would pan out, due to Covid. As it happens, should have gone for promotion as (I think) for that season they ended up waiving the need to do the lines for 6 to 5.

I do know, however, that, with my work commitment, 5 would be my ceiling as no way can I commit to the demands of a level 4.

For the last couple of years Ive done a Sunday league, I offer myself up to my Saturday league when I can, and usually get games, and have done some middles & lines on a midweek floodlight U18 league.

My advice? Try it, nothing lost if you don’t end up continuing (your first few match fees will cover the cost of the course). Use the Full Time website to route around for leagues in your area. If I’m honest, I’d rather just ref on a Saturday afternoon, but needs must

 

[JamesL]

Where do you want to progress too?
Getting to L4 (refereeing step 5/6)and beyond is tough if you aren't regularly available, even if you meet the criteria (20 games/5 lines, standard expected or above).
In my first attempt I was unsuccesful only due to my availability which was poor, I was working 1 in 3 Saturdays but also a season ticket holder with a championship club. I was probably one of the highest average scores, had done more than enough qualifying games but as my Sat availability wasn't good I want taken on. Even though I had explained my circumstances and what i was doing to change it.
It will take at least 3 or 4 seasons to get to that point anyway, as based on what you have said you won't be able to do a double jump promotion as you won't be available for the amount of games you need to do.
So that is, one full season of 20 games then can apply 7-6, 6-5, so that 3 years before you have to think about the next step to level 4 and beyond.

That said, I know of paramedics and police officers at level3 who can only offer 1 o2 Sat's a month and they get on just fine so it might work out for you anyway.

I'd say go for it, we are crying out for referees. If your sole motivation is 'going through the ranks' then you do need to consider your availability, it might hold you back. However, that's probably way ahead of yourself anyway, you need to get started, see what's what, is it right for you, do you enjoy it etc. So dive in and join the team and once your foot is in the door you can decide what your priorities are or how you can make refereeing fir your life.

 

[WhoIsThis]

Where do you want to progress too?
Getting to L4 (refereeing step 5/6)and beyond is tough if you aren't regularly available, even if you meet the criteria (20 games/5 lines, standard expected or above).
In my first attempt I was unsuccesful only due to my availability which was poor, I was working 1 in 3 Saturdays but also a season ticket holder with a championship club. I was probably one of the highest average scores, had done more than enough qualifying games but as my Sat availability wasn't good I want taken on. Even though I had explained my circumstances and what i was doing to change it.
It will take at least 3 or 4 seasons to get to that point anyway, as based on what you have said you won't be able to do a double jump promotion as you won't be available for the amount of games you need to do.
So that is, one full season of 20 games then can apply 7-6, 6-5, so that 3 years before you have to think about the next step to level 4 and beyond.

That said, I know of paramedics and police officers at level3 who can only offer 1 o2 Sat's a month and they get on just fine so it might work out for you anyway.

I'd say go for it, we are crying out for referees. If your sole motivation is 'going through the ranks' then you do need to consider your availability, it might hold you back. However, that's probably way ahead of yourself anyway, you need to get started, see what's what, is it right for you, do you enjoy it etc. So dive in and join the team and once your foot is in the door you can decide what your priorities are or how you can make refereeing fir your life.

Thanks for the reply. My ambition is to go as high as possible (why not I guess!) But I realise that getting to Level 4 would be hard anyway, although I don't want to set myself a ceiling at that point. It's not my only motivation of course, I could think of many more relaxing ways to spend days, but it also seems like something I could enjoy. I think I'd be able to do a fair amount of games, just maybe not *that* many on Saturdays which I'm not sure how important it is or if other leagues count too that don't only play Saturdays.

I work many Saturdays and it does, now doubt, limit your options.

However, a couple of seasons ago I got promoted from 7 to 6, considered doing 6 to 5, and think I could have done it (based on both my ability & availability. The biggest limiting factor would have been the need to do 5 lines on the Tool station league - I could have done this, but it would have used up 5 of my available Saturdays. I decided not to go for 6 to 5 as I wasn’t sure how the season would pan out, due to Covid. As it happens, should have gone for promotion as (I think) for that season they ended up waiving the need to do the lines for 6 to 5.

I do know, however, that, with my work commitment, 5 would be my ceiling as no way can I commit to the demands of a level 4.

For the last couple of years Ive done a Sunday league, I offer myself up to my Saturday league when I can, and usually get games, and have done some middles & lines on a midweek floodlight U18 league.

My advice? Try it, nothing lost if you don’t end up continuing (your first few match fees will cover the cost of the course). Use the Full Time website to route around for leagues in your area. If I’m honest, I’d rather just ref on a Saturday afternoon, but needs must

Thanks for the reply, how come you didn't do other days? Simply due to availablity?

 

[JamesL]

Thanks for the reply. My ambition is to go as high as possible (why not I guess!) But I realise that getting to Level 4 would be hard anyway, although I don't want to set myself a ceiling at that point. It's not my only motivation of course, I could think of many more relaxing ways to spend days, but it also seems like something I could enjoy. I think I'd be able to do a fair amount of games, just maybe not *that* many on Saturdays which I'm not sure how important it is or if other leagues count too that don't only play Saturdays.

Thanks for the reply, how come you didn't do other days? Simply due to availablity?

Yes the leagues on other days count. But when they rank you against your peers, it can come down to who is available on a Saturday afternoon as that is when a level 4 referees the most.
Like I say, definitely get involved, and best of luck in your career

 

[socal lurker]

You might want to try it, see if you like it, and then decide what your ambitions are.

Many people try it and move on. If that turns out to be you, you'll know it wasn't for you.

Many try it and become hooked, but never shoot for the top tier because of other things in their life (raising hand....). If that turns out to be you, you'll have a great hobby to move on with and make friends.

Others try it, and love it so much and want to do top levels, in which case they make life choices to make it possible. If that turns out to be you, all the best wishes in your quest. It's a long, challenging road, but those FIFA refs all started at the bottom, too.

 

[GraemeS]

High level refereeing takes commitment to some extent from everyone. Even for me who works a "regular 9-5", it became quickly apparent in my half-season going to L4 that it would be necessary to leave work early on occasion, and booking too many Saturdays off for "personal" reasons is frowned on.

BUT. You're 2 or 3 seasons away from that point at least. To get your bearings and do the first few promotions, it's usually fine to include some Sunday league football. And to be honest, I know it's looked down on by some, but I think that view is a little outdated. Turn up to your local Sunday league Div 4 match and yeah, the standard will be poor. But those are the same players who make up the Div 4 matches for Saturday leagues as well, nothing magically make them better just because they're playing a day earlier.

And the inverse is true too: if a team is playing in their Sunday league premier division, they're at least going to have been good enough to beat a few other teams on their way up there. Yes, the ceiling is higher on Saturdays - but you need to be realistic and remember that as a referee, the ceiling is irrelevant to you in your first few years of middles, and it's a lot easier to flit from Sunday to Saturday and back as a referee than as a team.

Getting stuck in with Sundays and the odd Saturday when you can is a really solid way to start a refereeing career. If you do get to a point where your job is getting in the way of your progression then yeah, you may need to make some choices - but you're a few years away from that kind of problem and it shouldn't stop you giving it a go.

 

[RustyRef]

Very few leagues at true grass roots levels regularly use assistant referees, so referees almost always have to learn their trade working on their own. Those leagues that do often aren't willing to take on newly qualified referees, and if they do it will certainly be for lines only initially. To get to a position where you regularly have neutral assistants you'll need to get on something like a county league, or a supply league step 6 or 7 division.

I would recommend going for it anyway, and if you can get on the panel of your local professional club's referee panel. These often use team of three, especially on the older age levels, and often have senior referees or retired referees that were previously senior coming to coach and mentor the referees. This lets new referees learn under guidance in a competitive but respectful environment (most of the clubs have a policy that if parents abuse the match officials or indeed any of the kids then their child is removed from the club - that shuts up even the most angry of competitive dads )

 

[RobOda]

meaning that id miss out on typical Saturday afternoons a lot.

You can get involved in Sunday League matches as mentioned but also;

Have a look at the Women's League for example, they're usually on a Sunday afternoon and they usually need referees.

I'm sure if you spoke to the Assoc/ref's officers about prioritising Sundays, they would try to accommodate you somewhat.

The other games on Sunday tend to be Development games, but in my area I think they're tier-restricted, so it's unlikely you'll get on those without a promotion or two under the belt and you'd be limited to being on the line at first (I think!)

And the final one I can think of is the College games, I'm pretty sure they're on a Sunday afternoon, they're U18 matches usually with College Academy teams, which can often be made up of players from Development Teams anyway, so the standard can be very good compared to grassroots. Those games DO have a full team (ref plus two assistants) and last I knew, didn't have a grade/tier restriction to join in, but they appear to be on a first come first serve/who you know basis - I got assigned my first game there by the Ref's Officer, but every game beyond that came direct from the college, a bit messy really, but it may have changed since then. Have a look into it anyway.

Basically, there's always plenty of games around that you could be able to get into, the trouble is getting started in them in my experience, but the modernising things by going online is making all of this a lot easier than it ever has been.

Oh and NB: I'm in Wales, so this may have additional restrictions/flexibility in England, but I think the general principles should be the same.

 

[WhoIsThis]

You can get involved in Sunday League matches as mentioned but also;

Have a look at the Women's League for example, they're usually on a Sunday afternoon and they usually need referees.

I'm sure if you spoke to the Assoc/ref's officers about prioritising Sundays, they would try to accommodate you somewhat.

The other games on Sunday tend to be Development games, but in my area I think they're tier-restricted, so it's unlikely you'll get on those without a promotion or two under the belt and you'd be limited to being on the line at first (I think!)

And the final one I can think of is the College games, I'm pretty sure they're on a Sunday afternoon, they're U18 matches usually with College Academy teams, which can often be made up of players from Development Teams anyway, so the standard can be very good compared to grassroots. Those games DO have a full team (ref plus two assistants) and last I knew, didn't have a grade/tier restriction to join in, but they appear to be on a first come first serve/who you know basis - I got assigned my first game there by the Ref's Officer, but every game beyond that came direct from the college, a bit messy really, but it may have changed since then. Have a look into it anyway.

Basically, there's always plenty of games around that you could be able to get into, the trouble is getting started in them in my experience, but the modernising things by going online is making all of this a lot easier than it ever has been.

Oh and NB: I'm in Wales, so this may have additional restrictions/flexibility in England, but I think the general principles should be the same.

Thanks for the reply! I don't even need to prioritise Sundays, it'll be an even split of Saturday/Sundays I imagine! Think it's probably just worth a go